I haven’t posted here in a little while because I’ve been backpacking through Mongolia. I’m going to share that experience with you shortly.

I’ve also decided to post all of my new blogs on Steemit. The thing about Steemit is that the content has to be posted there first, before it’s posted anywhere else on the internet. And then you can somehow earn cryptocurrency. I don’t really understand how it works hehe but I like that people on there actually read and engage with each other. The first thing I should have done on Steemit was make an introductory post. Unfortunately, I didn’t know that before, so this will be my 7th Steemit post. Better late than never, right?!

Here it is!:
https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@smallsasha/traveled-for-11-years-now-i-sit-and-write-for-you

If I can make some kind of money from this platform that would be great, since I’m pretty much gonna be foocked in 6 months or so, when I run out of money and will be forced to find a useless job somewhere to continue to live on Earth. So if you’re on Steemit, please check out my blogs :)

The topic for my last TROM discussion was meant to be ‘money,’ with a focus on how money is a fictional reality (i.e. the money system works only because we all use imagination), but I accidentally spent the first hour of our meet up telling everyone stories about my sailing adventures in New Zealand and the Caribbean :D.

You see, I used to think that sailing was just for rich people until I lived on a yacht myself and met all kinds of people that sailed around the world with almost no money :).

Here’s how it happened: I was studying at Sydney Uni when I was 22 and wanted to snowboard in New Zealand for my winter break in June/July. I didn’t have that much money so I searched for people to stay with for free on couchsurfing. I came across a very interesting profile of a Brazilian guy who worked in Wanaka as a skydiver. I didn’t know any skydivers back then, nor had I tried skydiving, so I was really excited to meet this person. Unfortunately, he wrote back saying that he was in Aruba all winter and wouldn’t be back until October. But he also wrote that he read my profile and would love to meet me because there aren’t a whole lot of “us” in this world. Then he invited me to sail around the North Island of New Zealand in his little yacht at the end of October for a couple of months.

I thought it over. Flew to New Zealand. Snowboarded and hitched all around the South Island, met a bunch of nomadic travelers and skibums, and admired New Zealand’s dramatic beauty. I also visited Christchurch and saw the aftermath of the devastating earthquake (this was 2011) and talked to many people that had been affected by this disaster.

When I flew back to Australia, I decided that opportunities like this don’t come around very often, so I have to accept this sailing trip. I dropped out of university for the third time. Wrote a long letter to my mother, promising her to come back and finish one year later. Then I worked every day and every night for one month (in 3 Wise Monkey’s Pub, Sydney), saved as much money as possible, caught a ride with an aboriginal friend to Alice Springs, hitched to Darwin, then caught the cheapest flight I could find out of Australia the day before my visa expired. Then I had 2 months to exist somewhere on Earth before I could fly to New Zealand (because of more visa bullcrap). So I spent two months “existing” in Indonesia on a budget of $10/day and traveled from Bali to the eastern-most tip of Nusa Tenggara and back by myself.

Here’s a picture of me in East Nusa Tenggara :). (but that story’s for another time :)).

I flew into Auckland at the end of October and hitched a ride to Tauranga, NZ. There, I finally met Enzo- the crazy Brazilian skydiving sailor. Interesting fellow he was, around 30 years old, tall, brown hair, somewhat attractive. He was extremely interesting to talk to and gave me a bunch of books to read. One was “A Culture of Make Believe” by Derrick Jensen- brilliant and shocking book which exposes the horrors of our make-believe culture while exploring the relationship between hate/exploitation/destruction and economics. Enzo said I had to read this book if I wanted to stay on his yacht :).

Another book he gave me was “Maiden Voyage” by Tania Aebi- really interesting true story about a girl who took off on a sailboat in the 1980’s (before GPS) when she was 18-years-old, and spent two and a half years sailing around the world by herself. These two books changed the course of my life just a little bit.

So we worked on Enzo’s boat for a couple of weeks, then took off on our first sailing trip- to Mayor Island, just off the coast of Tauranga. We left in the afternoon, sailed past the sunset and into a brilliant starlit night.

There was a big swell that night, about 3 meters or so. Enzo’s 37’ steel yacht crashed into these icy cold waves with immense power. I was absolutely terrified, yet incredibly excited. The sound of the wind, the sound of the sails getting hampered and turned, the waves- crashing against the hull, weaving, swirling, disappearing into the dark obis. Reappearing again, crashing.

Down below it was the worst. I had no idea that you would hear such sounds inside of a sailboat- the sound of crashing waves was maximized tenfold, as if the boat was getting beaten down by the ocean. There were vicious clanking sounds from the steel hull, as if some giant was hitting the boat with a hammer. It sounded like the boat was going to fall apart at any moment! I couldn’t be down below for more than 10 seconds. You couldn’t stand down there as the boat rocked you from side to side, back to front. And I felt this intense heaviness as soon as I stepped down below, as if the mass of my body had suddenly doubled, and the mass of my head had tripled.

On the deck it was calmer- ride the boat up the wave, roll it down the wave, then crash into the next wave. Ride the next wave up again, down again, crash again. Stay in the cockpit and hold on, if you fall out, you’re dead within 30 minutes.

Each crash was spectacular. There was bioluminescent phytoplankton in the water- plankton that light up like stars when agitated. So every time the boat crashed into a giant wave, the little plankton appeared like a galaxy on our deck, then rolled down and vanished like shooting stars. I was mesmerized by this sight- stars above, stars below, the wind, the elements, the waves, the ocean. This is what life should be about! Not learning how to make some business plan in university!

I remember this moment perfectly because I fell deeply in love right there and then. Not with Enzo :), but with sailing, and with life.

When the waves got stronger, Enzo made me go down below and sleep. I was absolutely terrified down there, but that heaviness pinned my body to the bed and knocked me out cold and fast.

I woke up a few hours later to the sound of calm waves and easy rocking. We were anchored.

Enzo took my hand and said he wanted to show me something. We went onto the deck, the night was calm and dark, I could see a halfmoon bay and black mountains in the distance.

Then he asked, “do you believe in magic?”

I replied, “sure” :).

And he took a stick and crashed it along the water. The ocean lit up like the Milky Way.

In the morning, I stuck my head out of the hatch. Felt the cool wind hit my face. I smelled salt, dirt and lush vegetation.

I heard birds diving into the water, and the sound of small waves crashing on sand. I looked ahead and saw a perfect bay. No people, no other boat in sight. Just a deep dark green forest of interwoven trees and vines reaching out towards the crystal blue water. We had breakfast then took the dinghy to shore and explored the rolling hills and fantastic views of New Zealand.

We did this for about two months, sailing to different islands and back to Tauranga from time to time. Being in Tauranga was great too, since we lived in Enzo’s yacht and talked to many other people who lived in their yachts as well. That was when I figured out that sailing was not at all ‘just for rich people.’ In fact, it seemed like everyone in that harbor was dead broke!

Our neighbor Dave, one of the nicest little Kiwi guys I’ve ever met, barely had a penny to his name, but he lived for sailing. He dreamed of sailing to Antarctica and around the world one day. He lived on his boat year-round and worked odd jobs to pay for food and boat maintenance.

I also talked to many old people, sailors that had been all around the world. And I decided that if I ever grow up, I’d like to be just like them :).

You see, real traveling is not about ticking off a list or taking selfies in pretty places, it’s about the people you meet. And trust me, you’ll never meet these kinds of people in the lobby of a Marriott.

At the end of December, I flew to New York and Enzo went back to skydiving on the South Island.

New Year’s Day, 2012, I get an email from Enzo saying that he’s in the hospital and paralyzed from the hips down.

Later that year, I visited him in NZ and he was already planning to participate in the Paralympics.

Two years later, he invited me to sail a boat halfway across the world (from St. Maarten to NZ) and film a documentary. I met him and two other friends in the Caribbean in spring of 2014. We spent a few weeks fixing up the boat, then sailed a bit around St. Maarten, then across the Caribbean Sea to Aruba. Long story short, I got kicked off the boat in Aruba :). Then Enzo sailed to Panama with another friend. That friend left there. Then Enzo sailed from Panama to New Zealand by himself.

We are no longer friends, but despite that, he is quite an inspirational person.

So, none of those adventures took all that much money. Both times sailing, I pretty much only paid for food. Plane tickets are probably the most expensive thing, but you can get around that as well if you have ‘open time.’ Here’s how- 1. Hitch hike 2. Hitch a boat :D.

You see, it’s difficult to sail a yacht by yourself- you have to constantly keep watch to make sure you don’t hit anything. So when people go on long journeys (like across an ocean or sea), they usually need crew. There are many captains who don’t have much money and don’t want to pay to hire experienced crew, so they will look for random people that can help them keep watch. -That’s basically the main thing they need, just for someone to stay on deck and make sure there are no boats in the way while they sleep. There are websites, such as findacrew.net where captains will post where they’re going and what kind of crew they need/for how long/etc.

Sailing experience helps if you’re looking for a boat ride, but it’s not always necessary. Also, be careful before signing up for a long journey (especially if you’re a girl) because there are a lot of crazy captains out there. Get to know the captain face to face before you decide to cross an ocean with him or her.

Before leaving for my second sailing adventure (which was meant to last 8-9 months and go halfway around the world) I did three things: 1. I took a beginner sailing course 2. I saved about $3,000 (AUD) 3. I read a few books written by people who survived on a dinghy or liferaft for several weeks or months after their boat had been capsized in the ocean. I figured, if shit really hits the fan, it doesn’t matter how well I know how to sail, what I would really need to know is how to survive.

Enzo recommended three books:

1. “Adrift: 76 days lost at sea” by Steven Callahan. Amazing story of a man who survived in a liferaft in the Atlantic Ocean by himself for 76 days. He almost died several times as he got caught in storms, attacked by sharks, was constantly on the verge of dying from dehydration, and had to fix his deflating liferaft to save himself from drowning.

2. “Survive the Savage Sea” by Dougal Robertson. Six people- husband, wife, three kids, plus a crew member survived in a liferaft and dinghy for 37 days in the Pacific Ocean in the 1970’s.

3. “117 days adrift” by Maurice and Maralyn Bailey. Wife and husband survived in their liferaft for 117 days in the Pacific Ocean, catching fish, seabirds and turtles by hand and with safety pins to stay alive.

 

These are all true stories written by the survivors. I think these books impacted me far beyond what I had expected. Aside from learning that you have to have a very strong will to survive being lost at sea (and also be a lucky motherfucker), I learned about reality. You see, in a situation like that, nothing matters but survival. What do you need to survive? -Drinking water, food, flotation device. All three books described the devastating times when they had but 3 drops of water to drink in a single day, and those times when they managed to collect a large amount of water. All three described how rich they felt when they had a lot of water. All three described that the fish’s eyeball was the best part of the fish :) because it holds the most water. Water is all you need! (Okay plus some food and a flotation device).

 

You can extend this to your own reality. Think about it! If all these people can survive in the ocean for months with almost nothing at all, surely you can survive on land!! I think this is why I’m not afraid to never have a “real job” and in general to have “no security” (no income, no health insurance, no home, no home-base, no car, no retirement plan, nothing really- I love it! :D). I am on land! Not in the ocean! And on land I don’t even need a flotation device! I just need food and water (ok plus shelter and clothes here in Siberia), but the rest is just extra.

I think that most people today are so caught up in our culture of make believe that they have completely lost touch with reality. To understand reality, you have to try to understand your existence in relationship to the Earth and the Universe. Who are you? Just a little human who needs food and water to live. That’s all.

Last week in my “better than your average conversation in Irkutsk” meet up, we watched the following video on ownership and social status:

I was pretty stoked that after watching the video and having a short discussion, everyone seemed to agree that this idea of owning something exists only in our imagination. You don’t really own anything. The only reason you think you own something is because you believe you own it and everybody else believes that too. But imagine telling an alien that this house is yours because you have a piece of paper that proves it’s yours. Surely the alien would tell you that your piece of paper means nothing :P. When you die, all the stuff you’ve acquired will remain on Earth and there is no cosmic law that can prove that you own anything.

One very important question from a newcomer: why is this important?

It’s important because this belief in ownership is at the core of the game that we all play here on planet Earth. Take a look at this book to understand what I’m talking about.

• • We believe we own things (we all use imagination)
  • Because of this we try to acquire things- phones, clothes, houses, cars, money etc.
  • In order to acquire things, we need to play the TRADE game
    • I trade my time/effort/skills (work) for money
    • I trade money for food/cars/house/etc.
    • There are many other types of trades- using money is just the most common way of trading. See “the origin of most problems” book above to learn about other kinds of trades
  • In order for this whole thing to work, businesses engage in trades
    • Example:
      • Farmer trades time and labor for money
      • Result: cotton
      • H&M needs cotton. H&M trades money for cotton
      • Cotton is transported to a factory
      • Factory workers trade time and labor for money
      • Result: shirts
      • H&M trades money for advertisement
      • Advertising agency employee trades time and skills for money
      • Result: ads to sell more shirts
      • H&M trades shirts for money
      • People trade money for shirts
    • Doesn’t sound all that bad, right? Jobs! Stuff to do! And that’s just business as usual, right? …But here’s a list of crap that comes out as a side effect of such a trade (and mind you, if you look deeply into any trade, you will very likely find some list of crap)-
      • The land is exploited– covered in harmful pesticides to meet the demand for cotton
      • Farmer is exploited (exposed to pesticides, paid low wage, etc.)
      • Transportation pollutes the environment
      • Factory exploits workers (long hours, low wages, harmful working conditions)
      • Factory/company pollutes the environment
      • Advertising agency employee gets depression from spending most of her/his time on Earth doing something that’s just not all that important
      • Clothes are low quality, high quantity
      • Huge amount of waste is created from unnecessary, poor quality, well-advertised clothes. The textile industry, as an example, produces 15 million tons of waste in the US alone per year. 15 MILLION TONS just in the US. Now think about how valuable those “jobs! Stuff to do! And business as usual” really are.

These are all problems that are very real and I’m sure you are well aware of them. If not, I’ve included a short list of documentaries to watch about such crap that exists in our world (below**).

I am sure that there are some companies that try to minimize the crap they create, but mostly, when a company is driven by profit (when its primary aim is to acquire as much money as possible) you will see loads of crap.

So think about the bigger picture. The world as a whole. Almost every person on the planet plays this trade game. The trade game is dominated by big businesses*. The aim of the game is to acquire as much as possible- the purpose of business is to gain profit. The side effects are the crap we see in the world: inequality, poverty, pollution, environmental degradation, overconsumption, slavery, war, corruption, and much much more.

Random person: “Ok maybe I get it… But that’s just the way our world works, what could we possibly do about it?”

-Well first, understand the core problem: the trade game. Understanding is very important. Most people do not understand that trade itself is the problem.

Then we can work towards understanding (or creating) a solution. But don’t expect the solution to be quick and simple. You cannot find an easy answer to such a complicated problem, as the solution will require significant restructuring of both infrastructure (the society) and values (human mind)

 

See these books to learn more.

*Actually, the entire world is basically owned by about 175 monopolies (from food to entertainment, to clothes, housing, healthcare, everything!). Tio made a search engine dedicated specifically to exposing just how big these giants really are. You can use it to look up almost any brand/artist/movie/company/etc. and see who it’s owned by. Check it out: www.tromsite.com/tbf/

 

**Documentaries recommended by Tio:

The Men Who Made Us Spend -to understand how this notion of “spending” got into our society and how easy people are to manipulate.

Merchants of Doubt -perhaps the best documentary that showcases how science can be corrupted. very mind opening.

Human Footprint -very interesting to see how much a human consumes in their lifetime.

The Traffickers -8 captivating parts that show in detail how there is a black market for basically everything.

Exodus part one and part two -millions of poor people migrating because of poverty. 2 parts, 4 hours. Very interesting.

Machines -it is hard to believe this documentary was filmed in 2018, it looks like it’s from 1918. Unique documentary showcasing slavery in India. Very sad.

Life in A Globalized World -how people are becoming depressed because of our lifestyle: jobs, buy, ads, jobs, buy, ads…

Dark Side of the Tea Trade -workers in India living in poverty and exposed to highly toxic pesticides working for tea companies (some “fair trade”).

Sweatshop: Deadly Fashion -working like slaves for H&M (second biggest clothing company in the world).

Britain’s Modern Slave Trade -workers being enslaved in the UK.

Complicit –workers in China getting sick from working in factories producing iphones.

The Dark Side Of Chocolate enslaved children in the chocolate industry.

The Rich, The Poor and The Trash -documentary about people who work with and live off of trash.

The True Cost -enslaving workers in the fashion industry and overall about the fashion industry.

Poverty and Profit- the Business of Development Aid -this documentary analyses the political background behind public-private partnerships in development aid.

7-Eleven: The Price of Convenience -working like slaves for 7-eleven (largest supermarket chain in the world).

Slaving Away -working like slaves in the “fruit and vegetable” industry.

Sex Slavery – slaves in the sex industry.

Behind Closed Doors – maids being enslaved.

Migrant Dreams: Canada’s Broken Promise -workers exploited in Canada.

Trafficked in America -workers enslaved in US.

Myanmar’s Youngest Maids -maids exploited.

Apple’s Broken Promises -more apple slaves.

See more here!

And have a nice day :)

We usually watch and have a discussion about one or two videos from the TROM Documentary in my English club here in Russia, but I was a bit tired between our big hikes to Shumak in the summertime, so I decided to screen the film, “180 Degrees South” rather than have a discussion :)

It’s a nice documentary about some adventure travelers (sailors/climbers/surfers; including the founders of Patagonia and North Face) with some focus on sustainability.

But of course, my meet ups can’t just end without some kind of intense discussion :D

There was one lady who argued that traveling and climbing mountains was nothing but “consumption” and that people don’t change or learn much through traveling around the world. Clearly, I had to disagree with her, since I traveled for 10 year of my life and I know that I would have been a completely different person today, had I never left New Jersey at age 18 (or Russia at age 8).

I don’t know how we would completely eliminate “consumption,” but I do know that traveling (real traveling- not vacation) forces you to minimize it. See my blog, “Saving Money and Yourself” to understand what I mean.

Also, it is important to make the distinction between traveling and vacation. To me, these are two polar opposites. I wrote about this topic towards the bottom of my blog on Maui.

As for my new rant :) …  Why climbing mountains/ surfing/ being a “dirtbag” (Yvon Chouinard’s word)  might be important :D

-A lot of environmental activists, Venus Project/TROM supporters, conservationists, etc. have a hard time because they find it upsetting that nobody seems to give a shit about the state of our planet, other species, our own species, pollution, global warming, poverty etc. etc. Crap like this-

How do you give a crap if you don’t see these things for yourself? Most don’t. Most people don’t give a crap I mean. The reason they don’t give a crap makes sense though; people don’t see such problems affecting them directly and immediately, and they don’t identify with whatever is being harmed directly.

“You only love what you identify with, and you protect only what you love,” Kris Tompkins, 180° South. It’s hard to identify with the ocean if you’ve never seen it and you don’t care to research much about it because you’re too busy making money or taking care of your kids. Why care about the 87,000 tons of plastic in the great pacific garbage patch? Or the fact that about 85% of the world’s fisheries may be exploited or depleted? Or the fact that 200,000 acres of forest are cleared each day and 9 million people die of hunger/malnutrition each year, while we throw away 50% of the food we produce. If it was your sister going hungry, you sure as hell would care, wouldn’t you?

It’s not anyone’s fault for not caring. Everyone is simply a product of their own upbringing and environment. But this is why traveling/hiking/climbing/kayaking/w.e might be important- because these activities force you to expand your environment. When you spend enough time in such incredible places on Earth (oceans, mountains, deserts, etc.), you start to form a bond with them, to identify with them, and then you start to care enough to want to protect them, the same way (and for the same reason) that you would want to protect your sister. Also, the more you expand your environment, the more you expand your capacity to take in more information- understand and perhaps identify with more of what’s out there.

Take this concept of “home,” for example. “Home” is a place that you identify with, it’s something that you love. I haven’t had one city or place to call “home” in 11 years, but the more I travel, the more I truly feel that the whole Earth is my home. I identify with the whole planet and all the creatures on it. I care about it, love it, and I want to protect it. So maybe that’s why I give a crap.

Note what I said before though- “it’s hard to identify with the ocean if you’ve never seen it and you don’t care to research much about it…” There are people, such as my friend Pablo, who have never left the country they were born in, but share this feeling of the entire Earth being their “home.” Pablo gained this perspective through feeding his curiosity- through research, reading books about the way the world works, watching documentaries, etc. This is exploring the world in a different, but perhaps more important manner.

So traveling is only one way to expand your environment and form a meaningful connection with the Earth, learning about the world is another way. Combine the two and life couldn’t be more thrilling! :)

I had a conversation with Tio about this recently:

Tio: “perhaps there are 2 kinds of exploring the world: “feeling” it and thinking about it. Though I would say we rarely “feel” the world, we mostly “think it.” Like, to me, the most fascinating things about our world are the things you don’t get to see or experience in any way: far away galaxies, atoms and quarks, gravity and other “forces,” the way light works, and so forth. The more you know about these, the more fascinating and unreal it will seem to you. I like mountains and whales :), but I feel a deep fascination about understanding these more than “feeling” them, like seeing them. For instance, to know that they discovered a cluster of bones in blue whales that prove they were a land animal a few million years ago is just fascinating. Perhaps the best is to combine the two worlds where possible – like know a great deal about say whales and also see whales. The night sky is a scenery that we all have access to in pretty much the same way, but only a few enjoy looking up and understand the amazingness of what they are seeing. The moon is a completely different thing the more you learn about it. It is not “the moon” anymore, but a massive rock that dances with the earth because space is bent (gravity) and they fall towards each other and sometimes push themselves apart. Fascinating.”

Me: “I completely agree about “feeling” and “thinking” it. I think schools (and the system in general) kill curiosity, making most “normal” people not care to think much of anything about anything. But it is spectacular when you go out into the mountains, and you think about the movement of the Earth, the forces that pushed those peaks to be where they are, and to be continuously changing. Combine the two as you said- thinking and feeling. When you think about the molecules that make up the rain, snow or hail- and feel them hit your face :D How spectacular it is to think about these building blocks- that everything, including us, is made out of the same lego pieces :). And that all of these lego pieces are mostly just empty space (the distance between a nucleus and an electron is enormous). How can you not feel a connection with the universe, “thinking” all of this? Or “feeling” this when you, say, move across a vast ocean in a little sailboat, having nothing but the elements push you forward.

Or when you stare at a fire under that big rock, knowing that the domestication of fire was the first phenomenon that caused humans to become who we are today. Over 300,000 years ago- before homo sapiens were even a species!- other species of humans learned to use fire for light, warmth, cooked food, and as a deadly weapon. Fire allowed humans to have power beyond the size, strength, or capacity of their physical bodies. This was a sacred tool, transported north and out of Africa in an amadou mushroom, then far across the globe. Fascinating”

I love talking to Tio :) I’m always distracting him from all the hard work he’s doing :D He’s just published parts 2 and 3 of his newest book by the way! Check it out here.

After talking to Tio, I thought that perhaps that lady who came to my meet up had a point. Maybe a lot of people travel just to “feel” it- just to see mountains, surf, etc. and maybe that’s not enough to make any positive change. I mean, in order to want to protect or defend something, you have to first learn about what that thing is, and what’s harming it. Otherwise the most you can do is comment about how pretty or ugly it is.

So curiosity is key. Be curious! Learn about the world! That’s quite easy to do with the internet nowadays. As I mentioned to Tio, the system (schools, jobs, consumer-based culture, etc.) kills our curiosity. -It influences us to care about nonsensical bullshit like celebrities and smartphones more than, say, science and the well-being of our planet. But being a dirtbag makes you not care about the system :) (schools, jobs, consumer-based culture, celebrities and smartphones) because the only thing dirtbags really care about are mountains, rocks, waves and oceans :) So if you get that dirtbag to be curious about the world and have him/her feed this curiosity, I promise that you will get a whole bunch of people that actually give a crap :).

The downside is that these dirtbags (like me) are almost always broke :D so maybe they don’t have much power to change the world.

Or do they? :).

P.S. Check out this one:

I recently realized that there is very little information in English about trekking in the spectacular area that I live in (Baikal region of Russia) apart from the Great Baikal Trail, so I decided to put together a hiking guide to the Shumak Trail using some photos I took this past summer.

Shumak is the “sacred” valley of 100 springs, located in Buryatia (trailhead is about a 4 and a half hour drive from Irkutsk). There are literally over 100 springs that meet in this location. Most are meant for consumption, some are meant for your eyes, ears, nose or feet, and some you can bathe in. Each spring has a little sign with its ‘healing property’.

Legend has it that Genghis Khan used to bring his army here to heal his warriors’ wounds. People still come to Shumak for healing purposes, but the only way to get there is by helicopter or a 50 km trek through a 2,800 meter pass. We did this trek 5 times this past summer with Syberia Top.

The season for this trail is only July and August. In June, the pass is still covered in snow (waste deep in some places), you might not be able to see the trail on the pass, you have to climb over loose rocks and boulders, walk through high rivers, and there may be avalanche danger. In September, you have higher chances of running into a snowstorm, and again, you may lose sight of the trail and can end up lost in Siberia.

In general, I would not recommend for people to do this trail on their own, but if you wish to do so, please do this in July or August and be prepared. Siberia is no joke! You can hire me as a personal guide or join one of our group hikes next year. See our English Facebook page or Instagram.

I recommend downloading an app such as mapsme, so that you can see the trail and your location while being offline.

Alright, so to get to the trail you have to get to poselok Nilovka, Tunkinskiy rayon, Republic of Buryatia, Russia  51.694445, 101.674198

There is a minibus that goes from Irkutsk to Nilovka.

While in Nilovka, you can check out this Buddhist Temple:

From there you need to get to this spot:

8.3 km down “unnamed roads” to “Nachalo Puti” (which means “starting point”) :).

There, you can find a fence, a couple of houses (one with a cafe in the summertime), and a gazebo-type thing.

There might also be a a “zilla” truck that you can pay a lot of money to in order to drive you another 8km down a crazy dirt road.

So start here:

It’s the only dirt road in “Nachalo Puti.”
You will walk down this road for a while, passing one cobble-stoned shallow river in the first 500 meters (it may be dried up or knee deep, depending on how lucky you are ;)). (And there may be more small rivers if that one is knee deep).

Follow the road. After 8 km or so, you will come to the end of the “zilla road” and you will see this:

There is a small trail directly across the road from those signs, which leads to a river. About a 3 minute walk to fresh drinking water.
*The water is spectacular and all over the Shumak Trail, so there is no need to carry a lot of water or a filter.

From there, go straight on-

Follow the trail through the forest. This is the mark you want to look for:

Markers are few and far between, that’s why I recommend getting an app that shows the trail and your location.

After about 6-7 km, the view will open up on your right and you will see this:

(probably without that woman:)).

We usually walk another km or so and camp in the forest by this blue tarp:

*There is a river about a 4 minute walk down a steep hill to the right of that tarp if you are the little person in that photo.

Watch out for cows in this area! They will eat anything, including your campfire!!!! :D

After this, you will walk up some small hills and the views will open up a bit more. There will be plenty more rivers and streams ahead for drinking water.

You will see these waterfalls on your right:

 then this:

And probably some more cows :)

In less than a km, you will come to this waterfall (photo was taken in June):

Then you will follow along the trail, keeping the river to your right for a few more kilometers before you will have to cross it.

And here’s where you would like to have a guide… If the river is low, you can follow the trail and hop across some rocks, if it’s high, you will need to walk upstream and find a shallower area, then revert back (or climb a grassy hill) to find the trail again.

You want to cross the river when this mountain is directly to your left (at the safest spot).

This is what the river looked like in June:

After crossing the river you want to walk up a small hill with the mountain that I mentioned before directly behind you. In about 400 meters, you will come to this lovely spot:

We usually camp here on our second night. It gets quite cold in this spot, hails quite often, and there is no firewood. So be prepared with warm clothes and a gas burner.

It snowed in this spot in JULY!
And don’t think that it will get any warmer for another 30 km or so :)

Yes, I made that snowman in July :D

From there you will have to cross this river-

We usually hop over some stones, onto that island and then over some more stones. But there have been times where we’ve had to go upstream for another 200meters or so before crossing.

After crossing the river, it can get confusing as the trail and markers are hard to spot, but the most important thing is to keep this mountain directly behind you.

You want to go this way-

You can go around the first hill to either the left or right (we usually go right), after climbing the hill and walking straight for another 2-300 meters, you will see this:

Climb the hill between those two waterfalls and follow the trail.
Keep left here.

In other words, don’t stray off climbing the hill, from here on it’s mostly uphill.

The trail will rear to the left and you will climb a steep hill.

From the top of that hill the view looks like this-

Keep on going straight with that mountain at your back. In another 3-400 meters you will be able to spot the pass and a clear trail which goes up alongside a stream.

In June, this part of the trail looked like this:

In the beginning of July, it looked like this:

At the top of the pass you can see Lake Nogon-Nur (if you’re lucky) :)

From the flags and pile of garbage (offerings for gods) at the top of the pass, there are two ways to get down. The easiest is to take the “horse trail” (I wouldn’t recommend going the other way down, it’s very steep and there are loose rocks). To find the horse trail, climb up the hill (to your left, looking at the lake), and look for this:

From here, the trail is pretty clear and easy to see all the way down the pass and past the lake (for another 10-15km). Unless it’s snowing of course… :) Or if there’s still snow on the ground… Then there’s not much I can help you with in this blog. Just head for that lake and don’t fall off any cliffs, because there are a lot of those. Watch out for falling rocks and avalanches too.

The trail will take you down the pass, over a river, past the lake, down a hill, over another river, up another hill, down another hill, until you have to cross the river “Levyy Shumak” (Left Shumak). The river will be on your right. This can be a cobble-stone hop, or a dangerous crossing, depending on how lucky you are ;)

After you’ve crossed Levyy Shumak, look for the trail again, it goes up a small steep hill. Follow the trail for another 45 minutes or so and you will reach this waterfall:

Walk for another 5 minutes and you will find a bunch of comfortable camping spots. We always stop here for the 3rd night:

After this, there will be another 5-6 hours of walking through little winding, bushy, super-mud trails. The worse part of the trek. There are lots of small paths that separate and weave back together, going alongside or on the bank of the river. So long as you keep the river to your left, you shouldn’t get lost.

Eventually, you will reach Shumak! But it will be across the biggest river you will have to cross in the entire trek :D

You will know you’re there because you’ll be able to see a fence, some wooden houses, and wooden sculptures on the other side of the river.

Mapsme tells you to cross Levyy Shumak before you reach the intersection with Pravyy Shumak, but out of the 10 times I’ve crossed this river, I’ve only been able to do that twice. The water level is usually way too high to cross there. So you want to keep on going straight, cross over stones onto an island, then follow the path and look for a rope. Not sure how much trust you want to put into this old rope (better bring your own, and a harness). People die every year crossing this river, keep that in mind. If the water level seems too high, just wait it out, eventually it will come back down again.

Alright! Once you’ve crossed that river you’re there! There are 2-3 temporary bridges which connect the “Russian side” and the “Buryat side” of Shumak. Buryat is the local ethnicity in this region. (Don’t worry, those are just nicknames; Russians are allowed on the Buryat side and Buryats are allowed on the Russian side :)). The bridges may be lifted during heavy flooding.

The main lines of springs, healthy mud, mineral water bath, shop, and helipad are on the Buryat side; the radon bath, Buddhist temple (Datsan na Shumake on the map) and more springs are on the Russian side. Both sides have cabins that you can stay in for free (don’t expect luxurious Swiss cabins :)). First come, first serve.

Helicopter rides back to Irkutsk are available once a week or so. Bring your passport and 15,000 rubles just in case you need to get a lift back to civilization.

The small shop in Shumak is open for 2 hours each day in July and August. It sells expensive food (like rice and chocolate bars) and some crappy goods. You can charge your phone/camera/radio/w/e there for 100 rubles if they’re open. There’s also a satellite phone and a shower that you can use if you pay a lot of money :)

And, of course, there are hundreds of springs to drink from! All different flavors and temperatures. Don’t forget to bring a cup! Springs, baths and mud are free!

In short, Shumak can be a 50km walk in the park, a horror story, or the biggest adventure of your lifetime… All depends on your experience as a hiker, your equipment and, of course, the weather. Like I said, it can snow any month of the year, including July and August. The rivers can flood and the bridges can get swept away.

The benefits of going with us (apart from meeting all the pretty girls that you’ve probably noticed in the pictures :)) are:

1. We know the trail very well

2. We have all the necessary equipment

3. We cook pancakes :D

The best time for Shumak is August because there are mushrooms and many berries- blueberries, raspberries, blackcurrant, redcurrant, honeysuckle berries and more!

While in Shumak, we will also take you on mini-hikes, without your big backpack. Some of these hikes include:

Peak Trekh Kapitanov (3 Captains Peak)

This trail is easy to find and hard to get lost on. Make a left after crossing the bridge in Shumak going from the Buryat side to the Russian side. Follow the trail past the massive cross. Cross your first river then look for a blue marker on your right. Make that right and follow that trail all the way to the top of the mountain. Watch out for loose falling rocks when you get to the steep bit. Once you reach the top of the mountain, make a left and look for a trail that goes along a ridge. You can climb along this ridge for another 200-300 meters before you reach a dead end. Enjoy the views and be careful on those cliffs!

You can find this trail on mapsme:

Perevalniye Lakes:

Pretty easy trail. About 20km there and back. Make a right at Perevalnaya River (before crossing it) and follow the trail and markers. You will pass a waterfall far on your right “vodopad na pritoke Perevalnoy” and you will have to climb over some boulders. In August, there were loads of delicious blackcurrent berries alongside the boulders. There’s a nice camping spot about a km from the lakes.

Mramornyye Waterfalls:

This is a super easy and quick hike from Shumak. 30 minute walk up a small hill. If you walk across the bridges from the Buryat to the Russian side, make a right and walk down the trail until you reach a river. Cross that river and make a left straight after the crossing. Follow the trail up and you will see these waterfalls. Loads of blueberries here in August!

Zolotoy (Golden) Lake + waterfall:

This one’s a little tricky. Finding the trail can be confusing, but basically you start off on the Buryat side, go up the hill behind the mudbath area to where there are a few cabins. Go straight, but a bit to the right until you reach a stream. There is a fat, carved log that you need to walk over to cross the stream. After you’ve crossed the stream, follow the trail past a couple more cabins. Then look for a marker (the 3 blue lines). There are lots of small paths you can take up the hill, most of them weave around and then join up again. Once you’ve climbed the steep bit of the hill, you should reach some boulders from where you can see a nice view of the mountains. Then you will get to a small waterfall and the Zolotoy River. If you don’t find that river and you’re no longer going uphill, you should probably turn around. Once you reach the river, the views open up and the trail becomes much clearer. You will have to cross this river a couple of times. I wouldn’t recommend doing this hike without a GPS or guide.

Stolby (Pillars):

This is meant to be a “sacred” place that houses two female spirits. These spirits are said to help women get pregnant. I try to stay away from this place :P

If you want babies, you are meant to bring these spirits two offerings and the offerings are supposed to be exactly the same, so that one spirit doesn’t get jealous of the other :D. Some people bring candy and food in wrappers… the candy is then taken by squirrels while the garbage is left behind. Other people leave plastic dolls and toys. Not quite sure what a spirit would do with a plastic toy..?
Anyway, maybe one day we’ll clean up this pile of garbage :D

It’s super easy to get to the pillars. Make a left after crossing the bridge going from the Buryat side to the Russian side. Follow the trail past the massive cross. Keep on going alongside the river for about 7km and voilà! You’ll run into the pile of garbage :D. The pillars are across the river. I don’t see how you can get lost on this trail so long as you keep the river to your left and you don’t climb up any mountains.

Alright! I walked about 1000km and sorted through about 15,000 photos in the past two months to make this post, so I hope you enjoy it! :D

Big thanks to Artem, Katya and Dima for bringing me onto your team and showing me all these amazing places. You guys are just awesome!

Follow us on social media to see what else is off the beaten path in the Siberian wilderness!

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We had an interesting discussion in “TROM Discussions” about the following video:

ALEX: For the upcoming discussion on politics/democracy, have a look at this interesting movement in Australia: voteflux.org

TIO: Hey, I’ve read their paper in full. So as I understand they want to move from voting for a political party to voting for specific projects. Also they want to let people trade votes with each other. On top of that, as I understand is like this: government gives each people one vote for one project; they can use or not this vote or they can trade it (but are not allowed to trade for money for example). If I understand all of this correctly, then I see a ton of issues with it. There are so many ways to make this system completely corrupt. I am wondering what is the difference between voting for a political party and voting for a specific project in terms of corruption? Aren’t both as corruptible? Aren’t people already influenced to vote for a particular political party? Couldn’t they influence people to vote for a particular project then?

I like that they mention decisions should be taken by experts (science), but I can see this system being easily corruptible, even scientists are corruptible. I still think that whenever there is a profit motive, it will ruin any system put in place. In other words: you just can’t make the trade-society (system) fair/just through rules, voting, different political parties, etc.

Let me know your thoughts.

ALEX: I’d say that when it comes to abuse of power by a few, the more people participate in democracy, the harder it would be for a few to abuse power because the power gets distributed. The more people that are engaged in developing policies, the less concentrated power is. When people delegate their power to a select few, it gets concentrated and more likely to be abused.

When it comes to corruption, again, I think the more people take part in democratic processes, the more aware they become about what’s going on, the less likely those in power would get away with corruption. The more politically active and aware people, the harder it would be to bribe / coerce everyone, values like honesty, transparency, accountability etc. would be easier to promote and to enforce

I’ve been thinking why I find it hard to accept that trade is the ‘root of all evil’ so to speak. I think it’s just a construct that reflects something deeper. After all, we are social creatures and we trade one way or another – with money, physical objects or with lots of other things like emotions, etc. You can’t eradicate that, it’s nature – we’re basically different elements coming into contact and thus interacting, this usually leads to some exchange. If you wanna abolish trade, you have to abolish all contact. Or perhaps I don’t fully understand what you mean by ‘trade’?

Or do you mean ‘profit’ instead of trade? That would be hard to define because I don’t even believe altruism exists. For example, when we do / give something without getting anything in return, we still get something in return – it could be feeling good about ourselves, it could be fulfilling a need to contribute to our society, to support people in need etc, but we’re still getting something in return in this ‘trade’. You can’t eradicate that.

And how do you define ‘profit’? Getting more than what you gave? That’s easily quantifiable when it comes to money but not so when it comes to other things.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to values. I think even profit (which can basically be compared to ‘growth’) can work fine as long as it’s in line with other values like kindness, sustainability, etc. The problem is that on our planet right now it’s not.

And regarding your q’s on VoteFlux: people voting for projects / issues is much better than voting for a party because once you vote for a party, you have to basically accept that party’s position on ALL the issues / projects and they may differ from yours. You can still delegate your vote (cos voting on every issue / project might be too onerous for people) but you would be delegating to an expert, rather than your elected politician, who is often not an expert and doesn’t often consult experts, or consults those who tell him/her what he/she wants to hear.

Plus, it’s common that a party may even have a specific policy that you agree with and hence vote for them, but politicians have often been known to change their position after being voted in, not to keep their promises, etc. And, most likely, you won’t find a party/politician whose policies/positions perfectly match yours, including new things that come up during the politician’s elected term.

TIO: Ok. But then how is it that currently millions of people are influenced though social media (or other means) to vote for a particular political party? To me that clearly shows that you can indeed influence a lot of people at once (regardless for what). On top of that, regardless of how many people are engaged in political decisions, in the end a few are taking those decisions (from architects to those who sign the contracts, company leaders or whatever) so there will always be weak links in the chain.

Apple was a dickhead many times with the users (slowing down phones intentionally, making their devices very expensive, removing necessary features from their phones, etc.). People got very angry at Apple. They could “vote with their wallet” and boycott Apple. This never ever happened. Is there an example of boycotting working? I think that is one big example of how, although people could “vote” in large numbers (with their wallets) and having in theory an immense power, this never ever happens. Apple knows how to persuade people to still buy their stuff, and also Apple is so powerful and big that it can bribe pretty much anyone. Celebrities, newspapers, TV channels, can all influence opinions in mass. I know when there are online voting campaigns for all sorts of stuff, and they too can are corrupted if there is an interest. People vote for their own interest most of the time anyway, so that combined with them begin also influenced, cannot lead to much progress I think.

That being said, I just cannot see how people voting for projects rather than politicians is not going to be influenced by companies, political parties, campaigns, and such, the same way they are now.

Not to mention that the vast majority of people know near to nothing about any important decision. They are normal workers who spend most of their time working at their job. How are they going to know what decisions are better and which ones are not?

So I still see 2 huge issues with this:

1. any system gets corrupted when the game is to acquire – if I am FIFA and want to host World Cup in Australia and there people vote per project, then I have a huge army of tools to make Australian people vote for us to host it there, and that would entitle building stadiums instead of hospitals and what not. If I am a political party and I want to cut the retirement money by 20% you bet I can convince many that it is a good idea. Again, such things happen today with elections all the time.

2. even if democracies would work 100% and would be non corruptible, relying on the “wisdom of crowds” is a very naive idea in mi own view. Regular people are not experts. Science doesn’t work that way.

And being able to trade your vote….to me that sounds like the perfect loophole to create a huge chain of corruption and cheating. You may give your vote to an expert, but what stops me to give it to a corrupt party when/if they will persuade me to do so? Or a corrupt expert that fools me into giving him my vote?

Maybe this system would be better than what we have now, but I really doubt it. Big companies and political parties have been lying to people and experts for the past 200 years and have been influencing them, so I don’t think they will stop doing that in a participatory democracy or the system you linked to.

I wish it was that simple, but I know too many examples of such ideas that ended up worse than what they replaced, being hijacked for profit by everyone. I just can’t see how you can stop people seeking for profit at any cost.

 

In regards to trade I think you got it wrong :). Of course we don’t talk about the scenarios you mentioned. When you help someone and get a reward in return like personal satisfaction, that’s just you feeling satisfied with your own action. Nothing to do with trade. You asked for nothing in return. I mean if you ask the other human being to massage you instead, that might be an obvious trade if you don’t help him without that massage :). We are talking about the obvious trades though. Think about money, that’s the biggest representation of trade. You can stop at that if you want. If not, think about any other currency (like cryptocurrencies). These are trades. You won’t get food in this world unless you pay for it. You won’t get medical attention unless you pay for it or are part of a tribe and respect its rules. Or the fact that FB wont let you use their service unless you give them your data – that’s like the massage idea. So if you help someone and feel good about it we can’t call that trade, no more than going to pee and feeling good afterwards and calling that a trade :). One example of an organization that removes the trades (not sure if entirely but that’s besides the point) is Doctors Without Borders. If they go to Syria to provide medical help they ask for nothing in return: no money, no massages, nothing. And they don’t care if you are a terrorist, you are from Syria, Iran, USA, are male or old. That’s a kind of system that I would call “trade free”. I hope it makes more sense now, if now I would be glad to try and explain more ;).

 

oh and 1 more that i forgot: 3. someone has to propose those projects, so that’s another loophole in the system. companies already bribe politicians to push their agenda (like pushing their projects to make profits), so how can you stop that? someone has to propose building new roads, a new chain of hospitals, or privatizing healthcare. and those who propose can be very easily bribed or have vested interests of all sorts.

ALEX: Ok, hold on, I’m not sure I understand – Doctors Without Borders still have to eat, so how do they get their food unless they grow it themselves? It’s basically indirect trade – they do something ‘for free’ and farmers grow food ‘for free’ but ultimately, the Doctor can benefit from the farmer and the farmer from the Doctor, that’s trade to me. So you’re against direct trade then? You’d like everyone to just do things to benefit others without expecting anything in return?

If that’s so, then how would you have a fair society? It will be impossible for everyone to contribute equally, so you get the old ‘each according to their ability, to each according to their need’, this is good in theory but is flawed in practice – because people rarely make an effort according to their full ability and people’s needs are rarely ‘equal’. So you’ll end up again with a society where some exploit others.

Plus, I still would argue that nobody ever does anything ‘for free’, they do it because they expect others to do it too so that they ultimately benefit from their input, indirectly. Plus, the altruistic system only works if EVERYONE is altruistic, which I don’t expect in practice.

Regarding the ‘wisdom of crowds’, there’s a good book by that name, I recommend it!

Also, I see where you’re getting at with ‘people will still be manipulated by the rich/powerful interest groups’.. ok, yes, that’s a problem, but I think that a participatory democracy or what’s proposed by Flux basically makes it MUCH more expensive and harder to manipulate people. E.g. politicians currently have to manipulate people before every election, they can sort of get away with most things during their term, people have short memories. That’s unless they fuck up so badly that they get voted out because of it. We had this happen with John Howard and his Work Choices policy, which alone got his party voted out.. but that’s rare nowadays, whereas here politicians/lobbyists would have to spend much more effort/money to manipulate people or experts in a more direct democracy. Whatever increases this ‘costs’ for them, in my opinion, is good to achieve some changes.

TIO: Doctors Without Borders are volunteers. They get donations/gifts but do not do the work for that reason, that’s why they are called volunteers. It would be a hell of a job to go to Syria and help others for just eating and getting some support for your deeds. Better stay in France and work in a hospital for those kinds of “benefits”. This is why they are volunteers.

Benefits do not equal trade – benefits can be extracted from trade, but they can exist without trade. I may discover a vaccine that cures cancer, and I do that because I am passionate about it, and that will benefit 1 billion people, but I asked nothing from them, thus there was no trade. Pasteur or Marie Currie worked their entire life on solving problems or discovering, and many have benefited from their work without trading anything to them for that. They just did it for whatever reasons (mostly because they loved doing it), and the benefit came as a result of that.

What I propose is to remove the need for trade. You want food? You should be able to get it without you giving anything in return: money, data, being straight or white (if they ask for such things), etc.. That’s the basic idea that we can expand to other areas. It cannot be 100% perfect at all. This is what I am trying to explain with the current book I am working, but if you think about it I propose nothing new. Many charity organizations are in a sense trade free: they work as volunteers and they rarely discriminate. Meaning they will help poor people regardless of where they are located, or who they are, and they don’t ask these people for money, their data, to sing a song or dress a certain way. Not sure if I make my point go across, but that’s what I am proposing on a global scale. It is a form of volunteering combined with charity combined with non for profit.

Examples of trade free systems:

1. Wikipedia: you use it without giving anything in return. You can edit articles, write, copy them, access them from anywhere.

2. Linux: it is free and open source. You can use it, distribute, edit, share, etc.. They ask you nothing in return.

And examples of trade systems:

1. Everypedia: they may mine your data, they may project ads into your face, they may put their articles behind paywalls. So they are in a trade with you, you can’t access their system for free, as in “trade free”.

2. Windows: you have to pay for it to access, you cannot edit the code or share, and so forth.

I will provide more examples in the current book in more detail, but I am yet to reach that part.

 

Thanks for the book recommendation, I have heard of it, even saw a documentary based on it. I agree with the wisdom of the crowds idea, but I think it can be best exercised in a trade free society, else the need for profit is going to ruin the “wisdom” part of the crowds. I think yes, people should try such ideas like the one you proposed, but I also think there should be some of us who think bigger than that. Maybe at one point we can become intertwine. Thanks for participating in such discussions Alex.

PABLO: btw, Tio Trom just a small point about the “Doctors without borders” and the general discussion topic. Volunteers actually do receive a “benefit” from their works…and that’s the “good feeling” of helping someone or something in need. That’s a physiological reaction from an action which stimulates the dopamine system of our bodies (as every other action we do) and in that sense its no different from any other “selfish” or “profit based” action (the only thing that changes is the subjective reward in the first case). So in a way you can make a point that is also a way of “trade” (a really indirect one because even if its personal, there is an interaction with an external party involved) in which you exchange your time and skills for a personal gain (although again, with no apparent external benefits for you). Of course, that’s an extreme example and probably you can make an argument whether is it even possible to find a “not selfish action” at all in real life (which I think is almost impossible considering that we all have hidden motives the we’re not even aware about it). And of course, not many people (me included) are going to tell you that altruism is a selfish or a “bad” action. In fact, I think its really easy to argue that is the basic of the development of our human society (trait we share with another social animals like apes and insects, etc) but I wanted to point it out because if you really want to make a point about the possibility of a “no trade system” and use examples of altruistic behaviour (like the ones you pointed out), one of the many things you would have to address is the problem of unfairness of that system, when there are people in the system who are not “altruist” or are even worse (because lets be real, not many people would like to go to Syria to help others). I think that’s the point Alex Shly wanted to make about that. Of course, that’s just an opinion and I may be wrong, but if that’s the case, I don’t think that’s the biggest problem of the “no trade system” at all. But I don’t think my problem with the “no trade system” can be addressed with just a facebook comment (and that’s why I’m not doing it now). I think it goes far beyond that, to the discussion about human nature in general and I don’t think we are even close to resolve that. So, for now I think every single one of your ideas (and mine too) are just that…Ideas with a different rate of “success” depending on economical, social and natural environmental factors (which we obviously dont’ know because we don’t even know what is success). But because they’re just ideas, we all have arguments for why one is better than the other and that’s why we’re here in this group, right?…btw..I support democracy…and I’ll try my best to defend it in tomorrows discussion

TIO: Volunteers are not a different species or a particular group, volunteers are humans and what they get in return for their action is up to them. Who knows what that is….maybe they do it for religious reasons, maybe just because they want to (nothing more than that), maybe because they are selfish and want to do that, and so forth. I work as a volunteer for the past 12 years creating documentaries, books, videos, and so forth. Ask me what I get in return because I can’t tell you. I get nothing. I just do them because I enjoy doing them.

You can’t say the following two actions are the same in the sense of trade: I go to help my friend fix his computer – I ask for nothing, but I feel good about doing that. I go to help my friend fix his computer – I ask for money (or his bike for a ride) or else I won’t do it. You can’t call those personal trades, no more (as I explained to Alex) than going to the bathroom to pee and feel good afterwards and call that a “trade”: you went to the bathroom to pee because it felt good.

Why do people play football with friends? Why parents are good with their children? Why would you watch movies? Why Why Why? Is this all because you are selfish and want something in return? If so, that’s a sad life, but is up to you. As long as you don’t engage in trades with others that’s fine :).

We can imagine a society where most people are volunteers, and thus do not engage in trades, and we rely on them. Today if all volunteers would stop doing their volunteer work our global society would collapse. When there is a natural disaster we rely on volunteers. The Internet as a whole emerged out of volunteers who created (and still create) content for nothing in return. The entire scientific field is based on volunteers who discovered and even experimented on their own (if you want a bucket of examples I can send you). People already rely on Doctors Without Borders or Red Cross. And since we can automate pretty much any job, a sane society (trade-free) would only rely on a few volunteers to run.

Here’s a video we made about the future of education and you’ll see many examples of volunteers in there

A book about motivation and cooperation

A book on volunteering

A book on how to automate pretty much all jobs

In such a system there can’t be unfairness because people are not valued by their contribution.

There is no human nature out there [Link 1; Link 2]- it is only human behavior that is created by the environment. Maybe we should do a discussion on that. My ideas are sourced though :) – that’s a big difference. I don’t just think about these things at night and talk about them. All of our books are sourced and we are here to take in any valid criticism

 

TASOS: Alex, if by using updated technology, we as a species, can create today an abundant society giving free access for all people’s needs then why we need trade?

Trade as we all know guides to competition-profit-personal enrichment-comparative advantage-conflicts-violence-racism and so on…

Also, why we should try for something better (inside of the current system’s box) instead to demand for the best we definitely can have today?

YOAN: Hi guys!

After reading the conversation I’d like to give my thoughts on a few things :

– I don’t think we always get something back when we do something but it also seems to me that we always do something when we think we’re going to get something back in return. Or to say it differently, it seems to me that we are all fundamentally selfish, and everything we do, we do it for ouselves, thinking that we will benefit from it.

This is of course my thought on a topic where, to my knowledge, Science doesn’t have an answer yet, as it is really hard to create experiments that will give clear answers about this.

That also makes me agree entirely with the environment shaping behaviour, because what is going to give me pleasure, or what is going to motivate me ultimately will be shaped by my environment (Something that Science knows already more about).

– I don’t think we should try to say “trade is this”, or “we can’t say that this is trade”, but I think we should all have the same definition of trade while talking about it, and whatever what we think trade is, for this conversation it can be something different than in our everyday life. What matters is that we all have the same definition while talking about it.

So obviously even peeing and getting satisfaction CAN be considered as a trade by some, but I think on this group we should try to stick with Tio’s definition, as every book is based on this one.

 

And the problem that we see in our current society is that we live in a trade based system. I don’t know much about “human nature”, but I agree with Alex if he says that we can’t remove trade among humans (if we consider trade as an “exchange” here). According to me, TROM is not fighting against trade, it is fighting against the need for trade, and maybe the “trade mentality ” of the people that make them feel like they need to exchange things. TROM is not trying to create a society where trade is bad… If we reach a society like what TROM proposes (or let’s say a RBE, sorry it’s just more simple to write :p) and you give me something, I won’t be like “oh sorry I can’t give you anything now because trade is bad” :p.

The difference is the need for trade.

if you give me something and I give you something, this is not seen as a problem, but if I give you something only because you gave me something, then that’s a problem.

I wrote that from my phone, it’s a mess, sorry, but I don’t feel like improving it, I didn’t plan to spend so much time on this haha

I hope it makes a bit of sense.

Maybe I just talked bullshit, but my point is : agree on your definitions before you start wasting time :p

it’s not about who has the right definition, but what definition do we choose to keep going in our conversation

TIO: Yes Yoann you put it very well. The reason I say “trade or the need for trade leads to problems” is because there are trades without money. I am saying the same thing everyone said for the past hundreds of years: “money is the problem”. I only go a step forward to include more systems similar to money like cryptocurrencies, data trade, etc. I will explain this in the current book I am working on in detail. When there is a trade or a need for trade it means some have something that others want or need and they can’t get it without. Is that simple. An imbalance that creates issues.

We can’t go as nuts :) as to include things like: “I help you because inside I feel well about that” and call that trade. That is absurd. If you do that with any idea you will lose your mind :)). It’s like saying democracy is about voting what music people should listen to, or voting when we should pee. Of course no one goes to those lengths and crazy edges. ;)

If in a saner society where we have most of the stuff we need or want, I come to you and say: “Please give me some cookies” and you say “Only if you give me a massage” then that’s an issue because it means I can’t get cookies if I won’t give you a massage. That’s a trade. Maybe I can accept to give you a massage and you will give me cookies, and everything will be fine, we are both happy, but it is a very slippery slope. It means there aren’t enough cookies for us all and it also means this gives you the power to abuse me. Maybe next time you ask me for some weird shit, who knows. That’s all.

Therefore, eliminated this virus “trade” that makes people do shitty stuff, and you indirectly will create a society based on abundance, something like the venus project talks about. Same idea, different paths.

SASHA: I would like to add a personal example here to demonstrate the benefits of a trade free system-

To survive on planet Earth, I have to work for money- I have to trade my time, energy and skills to get money, with which I can then buy the stuff that I need. I do this for a short period of time and then live and travel on my savings for as long as possible (then I repeat again). I hate those moments when I have to work for money. There have been many of those months where I was unhappy and unsatisfied. Earlier in my life I would be confused in these moments- what was I doing? What was the point of this? -I didn’t have a good understanding of our environment (the system we live in). When I was forced to work and study subjects I cared nothing about, I became depressed. I remember an ex-boyfriend telling me that I was unhappy because I was thinking too much about myself. I realized that that was true, and I wanted to help others and thought that that might help me in return, but I wasn’t able to do that without fixing my own problems first. So when you’re forced to trade your skills and energy for money, by doing a task that you don’t enjoy, this can very likely lead you down a slippery slope that would hinder your ability to help others. Why don’t more people volunteer? They’re too busy trying to survive in this system, or trying to fix their own problems (which are a consequence of this system).

So now I’m in this time period of my life where I’m just living off of my savings. I saved money the last time I worked and now I don’t have to waste my time trading my skills to get the stuff I need to survive with (until I run out of $ again). Basically, my needs are covered- like what would be the case in a trade-free world. So now I can do what I want!

This- having my needs covered- plus education (understanding my environment)- has brought real happiness and satisfaction to my life. I’m so stoked to be alive right now! I can’t sleep well at night because I can’t wait for the next day to start! I wish I didn’t have to sleep! :D I get up every morning with excitement. And now, what do I want to do with all of this free time that I have? I want to help others! I don’t need to concentrate on myself anymore, now I can work on something much greater!

I didn’t start my blog to get money or some extra personal satisfaction. I’m already satisfied, really. I’m genuinely writing it because I hope that it can help people. Same reason I help with TROM and TVP. Same reason I would help a friend if they were hurt. This is not trade- definitely not the kind of trade that we’re talking about in TROM.

To put it short, we could progress and help each other so much more if we weren’t forced to trade our skills and energy for our needs.

TIO: Well said! :) – If we weren’t forced to trade our energy and skills for our needs, we would share our energy and skills to help others, to improve society, ourselves, and so forth.

Don’t trade your energy and skills, share them ;)

You Sasha can and are able to inspire others to game the game, like you do. So thank you for being you!

SASHA: Thanks Tio, I can definitely say the same thing back to you- thank you for being you :) You’re my biggest inspiration for what I’m doing now, I hope you know that

And you see how that can be a positive spiral- people helping others- this inspiring others to help other others :), rather than people competing and wasting their energy on trying to survive and simply improve their own lives.

 

From TROM Discussions :)