141 thoughts on “Why I Left the Venus Project”

1. 

   Hi Sasha :)

   This is a very interesting and thought-provoking post, thanks for letting people know of your (mis)adventures with the Venus Project. I can sympathize all too well with what you went through, and I hope other potential TVP-volunteers read this post to get a better idea of what they’re getting themselves into by joining.

   I’d like to ask something regarding a particular passage you wrote, but I’m aware the topic has spawned some problematic discussions in the past, so I’d like to keep it short and simple if possible.

   You wrote: “(…) if you manage to solve this “trade problem,” you will consequently solve the “money problem” and probably also the “scarcity problem” because when something is trade-free, it is usually also abundant.”

   Does this quote not imply that the abundance of something is a precondition that must be fulfilled before it can be made trade-free? Looking at it from the other side, would it make sense to make something trade-free when it is scarce?
   I hope this doesn’t come off as a mere rhetorical question, I’m genuinely searching for a clarification.

   I agree with you that abundance is not enough. As you pointed out, there has to be at least a second component to the formula, namely the ability of people to access that abundance. Jacque talked about “access” to resources, while you talk about “trade-free” resources. Is there a difference between the two, or are they the same thing expressed in different words?

   Thank you for your answer :)

   1. 

      Hey Rob, thanks for your comment and good questions! :)

      I would say that it would be hard (probably impossible for many things) to be made trade-free if they are scarce and I think that most of the time the abundance of something would be a precondition that must be fulfilled before it can be made trade free- so of course abundance is important, however, I think that you won’t solve problems just by making things abundant. Right now we have an abundance of almost everything but people don’t have access to that abundance because they need to trade to get that access.

      “Access” to resources, as opposed to “trade-free” resources is the same thing, just packaged differently :). But I think that the packaging is important because 1- it talks about the problem and 2- I think it clears up a lot of confusion in regards to what we actually have access to in our world (trade-free access I mean). Facebook is “free” (money free) and almost anyone has access to it, but it’s not trade-free because if you want to use Facebook, you have to trade your data and privacy for it. So this “trade-free” label hopefully will make people think a bit more about how they are able to access things. Do you have trade-free access to something or do you have access to something only if you trade your data, pay for it, or do something else in return for that access?

      And just another thought, I think that a trade-free good or service that’s not abundant is still better than nothing. One example of this is the service provided by Doctors without Borders- it’s limited by volunteers, equipment, etc., but they still provide a good trade-free service to people in need. They can’t solve everyone’s medical problems, but they do help some (millions actually) and those people don’t have to trade anything in return for that service.

      We’ve had a lot of discussions in TROM and elsewhere recently about this trade & scarcity topic, if anyone is interested in more info, here are some links: https://www.tiotrom.com/2019/07/why-trade-and-not-scarcity/ https://www.tromsite.com/videos/#fvp_62,2s https://www.tromsite.com/videos/#fvp_63,0s

      I hope that answers your questions :)

   2. 

      its the missing link of consciousness..personal growth. Because each persons experience is part of their karmic journey it cannot be simple overstepped by good works in improvement of our material lives and less damage to the earth. (Unfortunately)! We grow by our own achievement with overcoming obstacles designed for our story even if these adventures can overlap with other things going on. If we approach our passions like doing something with Jacque Fresco s work, from a personal standpoint and do enough inner work with say 50 % of the day, we will see more, learn more and collaborate better altogether. You are the doer of your destiny not just a clone on some elses

2. 

   “Think about what’s actually scarce in our world- not much. Take any example- H&M – it makes an abundance of clothes! There is no real, created or perceived scarcity of clothes in our world, yet H&M convinces millions of people to buy more and more clothes because its main incentive is to trade (to make a profit). You can sell bottled water even in countries that have perfectly clean and abundant drinkable tap water.” It seems like you don’t understand what is abundance. It’s not abundance if we have to pay for something… If we have to pay or trade our data, then it is artificial scarcity, but not abundance…. Abundance is if fruit trees grow everywhere enough for everyone, then no one can sell, buy, extort (gov taxation), generally steal or punish for it… :)

   1. 

      Abundance means “a great or plentiful amount.” Just because something’s plentiful doesn’t mean that it can’t be traded. In the same way, just because something is traded doesn’t mean that it is artificially scarce. Artificial scarcity is when an item is purposely limited (made to be scarce) even though the company producing that item has the technological capability to create an abundant amount of that item. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_scarcity But that’s not really what happens with most items in this world. Most items are not limited, they are abundant but people do not have access to that abundance without having to trade something for it (usually money). McDonald’s doesn’t limit how many hamburgers it produces, it produces an abundant amount of burgers but you don’t have access to those burgers unless you trade money for them.

      If fruit trees grow everywhere, enough for everyone, they will be abundant (in relation to how many people need fruit) and people may have trade free access to them because they are abundant and readily available. If someone claims that those fruit trees are theirs and wants to sell the fruit, people will not have access to the fruit unless they trade money (or something else) for it. The quantity of the fruit does not change, so the fruit would still be abundant, but people won’t have trade-free access to this abundance.

      Think about this- from a technological perspective, what is actually scarce in this world? Not much, right?

      Don’t forget that Jacque talked about the need to create abundance AND for people to have access to this abundance without money, barter, or servitude of any kind (i.e. without the need to trade anything). So let’s concentrate on the second part of this equation ;).

      1. 

         You are wrong. Using wikipedia BS doesn’t make you right. It’s not abundance if we have to pay for something and that “abundance” doesn’t belong to all of us. If we have to pay or trade our data, then it is artificial scarcity, but not abundance. It’s not abundace if we can’t and just pick a free fruit. It’s not abundance, if some one or few people own “abundance” of fruit trees– it is artificial scarcity — meaning that someone has most or all of the resources, but restricts the access to that “abundance”.

         1. 

            So what I’m saying is that you are talking about fake abundance. True abundance is when all of us have full free (incl trade free — it’s not free, if we have to surrender our data for capitalist for trading. with our data) access to abundance. :)

            1. 

               lol that’s the definition of abundance, just look it up in any dictionary https://duckduckgo.com/?q=abundance+definition&t=ffab&ia=definition and it’s not only wikipedia that defines artificial scarcity that way- just look it up! :P. But regardless, let’s say we put definitions aside and go with your idea of “artificial scarcity”. Why is it that so much stuff is “artificially scarce” but not actually scarce from a technological and resource perspective? What’s in the way of us having access to all of this stuff? – Oh yeah, we need to trade something to have access to stuff.

            2. 

               Come on… Are you going to use today’s bs and sick society’s dictionaries definitions of abundance and artificial scarcity…? :D Both of these terms are relative and more complicated than these bs dictionaries state… Abundance doesn’t mean great or plentiful amount and the condition of being in rich supply. More correct is to say relatively great or relatively plentiful and relatively rich… And the question is to who and how… So there is difference between abundance and abundance… and artificial scarcity and artificial scarcity… Abundance can be piled up by criminal corrupt capitalists like most of them are and today’s bs and sick society’s dictionaries ignore that it is artificial scarcity also that Earth’s resources are stolen, occupied, assimilated and piled up by some of the society who hold it in hostage and demands money… or totally corruptly think it is righteous. Just because some state made theft and piling up of the resources legal, doesn’t mean it’s righteous, but today’s bs and sick society’s dictionaries ignore that… So like I said the answer to your last questions is that capitalists hold resources in hostage and demand money… Sure we can give out services for totally free, but that most likely wont change world particularly much… The most rich capitalists most probably will not release most of the worlds resources from hostage… So it seems even TVP and other similar projects and TROM and other similar projects will not change much until here will be political support from majority of the people…

            3. 

               I don’t think you should get so worked up over definitions. Sure the society is sick and language is super problematic, but definitions are just agreed-upon meanings of certain words. If the general definition of a word doesn’t express what you want it to mean, you should express what you want using more words, otherwise you’ll just make communication even more confusing and that won’t help you fix problems.

               “Capitalists hold resources in hostage and demand money” – right, so like I said- trade. A few people/companies hold resources and they demand that you trade (money) with them for those resources. Yes, this is a problem- exactly what we’re saying ;). Maybe giving out services for totally free is not the solution, I can’t say what is for sure the solution, all I’m saying is that the first step is to acknowledge the problem- this trade game.

               The reason I think that (maybe) creating trade-free goods and services could be a solution (if it was practiced by enough people and for long enough) is because (maybe) that could make the resources of those capitalists irrelevant. Right now, only a few hold most of the power, money and resources. How are they able to do this? Because the structure of our society allows them to hoard resources and demand the rest of the population to trade (money, data, crypto, etc.) to get access to those resources. As a result, they are able to acquire more and more wealth and resources, and the rest of the population gets fucked because they’re dependent on trading with these assholes. But if people had trade-free access to the resources that they need, then they wouldn’t be dependent on trading with those assholes :D. It’s just an idea, and actually, the most important part of this idea isn’t to have a “grand plan” to change the entire system, it’s simply to use trade-free goods and services to spread the message that trade is a problem. If the majority of people understood this problem, then maybe we could make some serious changes.

            4. 

               Here’s a great book about language btw- https://www.tromsite.com/books/#dflip-df_6613/1 maybe you would appreciate it

            5. 

               It seems the biggest flaw about that idea is that we would still depend of services that cost money — electricity, water, food etc etc… And the most logical is to make that trade free in a whole community settlement…

            6. 

               If those services costs money then they’re not trade-free, so that’s the flaw with the society that we live in, not the idea. If you can make all of those things trade-free in a community, that would be great :)

            7. 

               That’s the idea of CfRM and even practice of other similar RBE transition projects to make services trade free.. ?

            8. 

               If the idea was not only to make things trade-free, but to educate people about why trade is such a big problem, I’d be all for it ;)

            9. 

               Imperative to define the words used, it might be worth making that a communication standard. Vagueness, ambiguity and cultural/regional variations can make a misunderstanding an argument when problem solving might be more beneficial or even intended. Lacking common definitions in any given conversation, why even bother to attempt, might as well rename The Venus Project to TVP Support and then not really care about anyone who doesn’t speak english. Isn’t human language fun? WTF?! This predation cannot be the only way for us to exist… right?

               My apologies, I’m just reading Sasha’s insight… assuming Sasha’s correct in her dissent, well needless to say I’m disappointed in Roxanne and Co. I have more questions… this just kinda pissed me off. No offense or insult intended

            10. 

                haha well even if English is your native language, you might have no idea that “TVP Support” means ‘the Venus Project” support/activism

            11. 

                Very true… I was merely pointing out and agreeing with you that human language tends to be problematic as evidenced above, if common definitions are not established during any given conversation. :)

            12. 

                Thank you for existing.
                I appreciate you taking time to write and share your knowledge and thoughts.

                I have a potential solution for the trade/money problem. I think I need more time to refine it though so people understand.
                I know it will work for myself at least if I did live in such a utopia.
                I mention this to give hope.

                I hope you’re doing well.

      2. 

         Good write.

         Biggest problem with TVP is that there is no easy way for someone to volunteer. I tried volunteering various times but have been rejected… I would happily donate 2 weeks of physical labour a year . And I’m sure more would especially if they offered some sort of receipt for charity. I have made my own personal “Venus Project”. How? Retired young and Living mostly off the grid. Every year I become more independent. With the same technologies as most people in modern societies.

3. 

   To say resource based economy is irrelevant (is absurd), is to say trade-free TROM is irrelevant, because trade-free is resource based economy… :D :)

   1. 

      You might understand my point better if you read the last TROM book- https://www.tromsite.com/books/#dflip-df_6562/1 A resource based economy is trade-free, but trade-free does not have to mean RBE.

      1. 

         RBE is when people have access to resources without using money, trade etc. So TROM is partly RBE.
         And so your statement that RBE is irrelevant (you didn’t even explain and prove why is that so…) is still totally absurd, and even more so that there is no other comprehensive solution to all problems like RBE. If all the people would be doing similar thing like TROM — offering free and trade-free services, then that would be relatively rudimentary RBE, because of the chaos…, while TVP like RBE would be relatively highly advanced RBE… :)

         1. 

            TROM is not “partly RBE”, TROM is just saying that we have a problem: trade. Now let’s see what we can do about this problem. If you want to discuss further about what is or isn’t TROM, feel free to join the public TROM chat or come to TROM Cast and talk to Tio and others. Find the links here under “participate”: https://www.tromsite.com/act/

            The reason that I said an RBE is irrelevant (for me) is because an RBE is just an inspirational idea. Sure, it’s a great idea, but that’s all that it is. For me, it’s important to understand how society changes- through problem solving- not through envisioning an entirely different world. There have been many great ideas about how to better organize society; sure, none of them were as complete as this idea of an RBE, but nonetheless, none of these ideas were implemented the way that they were envisioned. In the same way, I don’t think that an RBE will ever be implemented in the same way that it was envisioned (and I think Jacque talked about this too). So to me, understanding the problem (trade) and focusing on trying to solve this problem is much much more important and relevant than envisioning an entire different society that has solved this problem (no matter how wonderful that society may be). Again, bring it back to Tio’s germ analogy (from The Origin of Most Problems)- millions of people died from infections before they knew that germs existed, but once people learned that germs were a problem, they came up with all sorts of solutions to fix the problem. If a group of people had envisioned a world with no germs, that could be nice, but it wouldn’t fix the problem unless they actually studied the problem and tried to get rid of it. The people that came up with solutions (vaccines, antibiotics, soap, etc.) didn’t need to envision an entire germ-free world to do that, and they probably would have wasted a lot of time if they did concentrate on that. Same goes for trade and an RBE. If we understand that trade is the problem, then we don’t need to envision an entire trade-free world in order to try to solve this problem. That’s why an RBE is irrelevant for me. If TVP understood this trade idea and used their inspirational vision of an RBE to spread the message that trade is a problem, then perhaps it could be a bit more useful :P

            1. 

               My mistake. I should have said that TROM is a publication that uses the most important resource based economy’s principles — price and trade free access to resources… But sadly it won’t change particularly much except for that people will be more educated about resource based free from money and trade etc economy… Center for Resource Management and other similar projects and ecovillages will change and solve he problems of society more than TROM like projects, unless TROM starts it’s own partial rbe ecovillage…, in my view. Due to todays global society’s chaotic structure, it’s relatively little help just by going free from trade… So it is still required that we build at minimum ecovillages similar to TVP designs and even more better cities similar to TVP designs, in cooperation with TVP and without. All of us don’t have to cooperate with TVP if it is possible and better due to some reasons to make another similar project…. Scientific method will help us to learn from all of these projects… And naturally we will unite… :)

            2. 

               What is a partial rbe ecovillage and how would this solve problems?

               I agree that making trade-free stuff on a small scale wouldn’t do much in this society. Maybe if this trade-free idea was practiced by many people and for a long time, then it could have an effect. But again, the point of making trade-free goods and services is more about bringing attention to the idea that trade causes so many problems. In my opinion, education is much more important than infrastructure at this point (although you do need both in the long run). If your ecovillages or TVP-style cities will also bring attention to the problem, then go for it- do something, don’t just talk about it! :P

            3. 

               RBE ecovillage or city similar to TVP would solve all the problems in the long run… It would allow for people to leave the current system and start the new… I really don’t understand why or how can you answer that kind of question… You are so concerned about trade free… RBE ecovillage or city similar to TVP and CfRM can be relatively trade free… Even TROM is asking for donations… So does TVP and any other npo etc while offering some stuff for free and partly without trade…

               Sure it wouldn’t and I would agree that the more people offer services for free and without any trade would make the transition into RBE that is tradless world more painless and the job of TROM about the point about trade is relatively helpful, but if we don’t unite in smaller and bigger scale, then that effort will only make the chaotic system relatively better.
               Of course there needs to be education before anything can be practiced… But surely you don’t want to live in this absurd chaotic system offering free and tradeless services while we could build TVP style automated cities…?

               If I will build ecovillage (relative term…) it will be relatively hi-tec… and that’s why I went to learn telematics and smart systems… So if the time is right I will build and participate in some project to plan and build RBE settlement and I don’t rule out contributing for the CfRM. :)

            4. 

               I’ve been working with TVP for several years and I fully supported this idea of “let’s build the new”. Up until I wrote the TVP Magazine Special edition “The Money Game and Beyond” and doing a bit of research about ideas that tried to change the society and why they failed. I thought I can see a difference in TVP. After all I managed their official magazine and was trying to be supportive to them and bring some explanations to the table. I realized that TVP or any other such grandiose idea are great for inspirational purposes but that’s mainly it. The society doesn’t change like that, by building “new cities” and that to inspire the world to migrate to this “new”. Society changes in small steps, and mostly when you focus on a problem. We explain it in detail in The Origin of Most Problems book that Sasha links to.

               I also remember that Jacque used to hate “ecovillages”, and such RBE “communities”. They are not TVP he said many times. TVP was more about the problem (money), than any city, from my understanding. And I wrote a lot for and about TVP that Jacque himself checked and many times congratulate me for understanding TVP so well. I know now TVP wants to build cities to prove something, but they were not able to create a movie, so I am skeptical they can build a city. Plus, if they forget to focus on the problem rather than on a solution, then they will quickly loose focus and aim.

               TROM and donations….we talked about this so many times. That is not a trade. It is a gift. A support. TROM promotes and creates trade-free services. If TVP were to be smart and understand what the problem is they would focus on trade as the problem and say that their cities are an attempt to showcase how a world without trade is possible.

               If you understand that trade is the source of most problems you go ahead and build ecovoillages that do not rely on trades between them and the inhabitants. Or do other such services. Even your ecovillage is part and inside of this same system that our trade-free services are part of. You cannot separate yourself from that. My “hope” is that the more we educate people about this “evil” force of trade and also create trade-free goods and services, the more chances we have to see big changes.

            5. 

               CfRM and ecovillages and other similars are relatively small steps…
               Hate seems to be too strong world. If anything he was little bit jealous that some people actually live relatively without trade, but he mostly talked about it.. ? Of course ecovillages are not TVP but relatively similar to RBE..
               Sure I would agree that TVP has not explained enough the thing about trade, but even their definition of RBE says world without barter etc.. Barter is synonymous to trade..
               Of course we all are part of this trade world and no one can donate anyone anything without money that comes from trade..
               But I very much agree with your hope. I would add that CfRM and ecowillages etc are to educational.. ?

            6. 

               If TVP would say a similar thing like you do, and see their RBE approach as an antidote to the problem named “trade” and it aims to educate the world about the problem and solutions to it, then they would be more realistic I’d say. I don’t see that from TVP. Jacque indeed talked about “barter” or “any servitude” being the “evil” incentives and approaches we should aim to avoid, but throwing a bunch of words like “barter, money, servitude”, etc., makes it more confusing I’d say. Trade encompasses them all. In the end, if we understand that “trade” is at the base of all of today’s major societies and “it” incentivizes people to create most of the problems we see today, then we will seek to fund solution to this “trade”. that could mean new cities (as models), services, goods, education, etc..

            7. 

               It seems to me that if we do not find or create a path to transition away from barter/trade which essentially birthed modern capitalism, that path will be forced upon us all when the money economy collapses, and it will, under its own grotesque weight or the disparity becomes so unbearable the masses resort to violence like every single human attempt to persist through capitalism in history. Like the violence capitalism drives in war alone isn’t incentive enough already,…?

            8. 

               I doubt the monetary system will collapse. I see no evidence for that. It will morph and hurt people. If you call that a collapse, ok, but I don’t see how that pain is different from today’s constant pain that so many accept and endure. I cannot see a “transition”. There was no transition from proprietary software to open source software, from horses to cars, from generalized medicine to personalized medicine. It is a constant movement. Many changes over many years.

            9. 

               With all due respect Sasha, such evidence is easily discovered. Historically, every single human society which has existed and developed a barter/trade —> money economy, (which seems to be nearly all significant societies thus far), every one of them, has failed because their monetary system was unsustainable, eventually currencies became worthless, they ran out of resources and had nothing to trade. No matter the details, all societies have failed directly or indirectly because their money failed.

               Summary Examples:
               The following article talks about the end of six different civilizations;
               https://www.history.com/news/6-civilizations-that-mysteriously-collapsed
               In each of these examples, the loss, overuse and depletion of resources is a contributing factor for societal demise. Resources being the the currency of barter/trade societies, one could say that their “monetary” systems collapsed rendering that society unable to carry on.

               The Roman Empire ultimately succumb due to their currency losing its worth to the point it was displaced by neighboring societies. Source: https://www.ushistory.org/civ/6f.asp

               The Ancient Greek society “could not sustain long-run growth because a multitude of independent small city-states prevented the exploitation of economies of scale and stoked continual wars that exhausted them financially and militarily, and because of a culture valuing landholding, self-sufficiency and collectivist attitudes.”

               Source: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-institutional-economics/article/failure-of-ancient-greek-growth-institutions-culture-and-energy-cost/096D382C1EF128430249293D95B5AB70
               The above paper can be downloaded free on Sci-Hub; sci-hub.tw/10.1017/S1744137418000188

               The modern money economy, arguably a form of capitalism, is and always has been, unsustainable. Not only environmentally, as most seem to relate the term unsustainable to environmental issues, it is fundamentally unsustainable because in order to function, capitalism requires endless and constant growth of the economy. Our world is a finite one,

               A crash summary of why… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve_bHsscQQE
               and a more technical explanation, albeit dated from 2012, of currency failure…
               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18LYC-bQfeY
               a more entertaining explanation of how/why systemic monetary collapse is inevitable in this paradigm…
               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM

               … well amidst writing this, the Governor of my state just announced an Executive Order mandating the closure of public gathering places and businesses due to Coronavirus. As I am a proponent of calm awareness and understanding, I’m compelled to be sharing this information. Please excuse me while I do so… I will return to make sure my comment isn’t completely incoherent. Thanks.

               Hopefully my point in commenting comes through… it seems that our money’s collapse is quite obvious with just a quick survey of the world around us.

            10. 

                That was Tio, not me :) But I think what Tio means is that he doesn’t see the collapse of the entire global trade-based (“monetary”) system, not the collapse of certain tribes or economies. Different civilizations have “collapsed” (or morphed) in the past but did they ever stop trading with each other? Did they stop using money? Not as far as I know. I’m sure that things will get worse and more people will suffer, but I’m not sure that would make the trade-based system collapse. I’m sure that people will keep on trading using money (or whatever else), and things will probably just get worse and worse as climate change and a billion other problems hit us. Bright future :D I agree with you that all of this is unsustainable. However, the only “solution” I can see right now is to first understand the problem (and then try to solve it). Tio did a great job describing the “trade” problem that I talked about in this blog here: https://www.tromsite.com/books/#dflip-df_6562/1/

                Money is just a medium that we use to trade (you trade many hours of your life for money, you trade money for food, clothes, housing, etc.) but money is not the only trade in our system. If the “monetary system” morphed into a different system that was still based on trades (like say a social credit system) we would still see the billions of problems that exist in our society today.

                So I also don’t think that the “collapse” of the trade-based system will happen (maybe the monetary system will morph into something else but that won’t solve problems). More likely, bad things will happen and we will continue trading (using money, data, social credits, etc.). Resources will probably eventually get more scarce, but we will continue trading them. Maybe certain groups of humans will die in large numbers and some might call that a “collapse” but we will continue trading… So in my opinion, if you want to make a better world, you shouldn’t wait for any collapse, but instead should understand the problem (what’s wrong with the world in the first place?), tell other people about this problem, and work to try to fix it. I recommend the book I linked to ;)

            11. 

                oops…. sorry bout that…

4. 

   It sounds to me like we need a single point of truth for our official groups and sites. I suggest having a directory on the main website to list the support groups run by TVP.

   1. 

      There is a directory of the “TVP Support” groups on the TVP site, it’s just a little hard to find https://www.thevenusproject.com/become-a-volunteer/venus-project-support/

      1. 

         Hmm, this is weird.
         You mentioned how they were grouped under languages, to eliminate unneeded divisions, but they seem to be a hodge-podge of language-based groups, country based groups(even if they share the same language), and sometimes even US state-based groups.

         I think they just made the whole thing ad-hoc, in response to the Zeitgeist Chapters, and scrounged up whatever groups they could.

         1. 

            Yeah that’s true “TVP Support” (previously TVP activism) is just a huge mess altogether. I’ve told them many times that they shouldn’t separate themselves based on currently existing political borders but should only have different teams for different languages so that the content is understood, but no one seemed to pay much attention to that. Except the Russian-speaking team- who was doing that already. That’s the one team that has one page for one language and does not divide itself by countries or states. The team is run by many Russian-speaking people (some Russian, some Ukrainian, some Kazakhstani, Azerbaijan, etc.) and appeals to anybody that understands that language. They’ve been telling “TVP Support” to do that for years but unfortunately nobody listens.

5. 

   You really nailed it with how focusing on money is stupid, since it’s just a medium of exchange between actors with products of varying abundances.
   But that’s easy for the regular folk to understand(“money is evil!” and we all hate billionaires), and if Fresco started talking about abolishing the division of labour, and collectivising natural resources, land, factories and tech, it would have shown that his resource-based economy is thinly-veiled communism with a new paint job, and some mainframes.

   1. 

      Glad that you get it :D

   2. 

      Consider the following video… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auu4akyyedw

      1. 

         nice video :)

      2. 

         Amazing! Thanks for sharing this video!

6. 

   IN MY UNDERSTANDING, YOU DO NOT LIKE THE STRUCTURE OF TVP – BUT NOT THE IDEA OF TVP, WHICH IS A MONEYLESS SOCIETY. AM I RIGHT? I AM AN ADVOCATE OF MONEYLESS SOCIETY OR RBE.

   1. 

      I think it’s a great inspirational idea and Jacque talked about a lot of very important things, but I feel like TVP doesn’t go far enough because they don’t address trade as the problem- and that was what I wrote about in this blog, and also why I linked to this book: https://www.tromsite.com/books/#dflip-df_6562/1 A society that uses no money but is based on other trades (say social credits or something else) will likely be no better than today’s society (it could be much worse actually).

      1. 

         Sasha, of course TVP has addressed barter/trade as a problem: “Specialists are produced today due to the established trade-based systems.”
         https://www.thevenusproject.com/multimedia/jacque-fresco-problem-solving/
         “The term and meaning of a Resource-Based Economy was originated by Jacque Fresco. It is a holistic social and economic system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter (equals trade) or any other system of debt or servitude.”https://www.thevenusproject.com/multimedia/the-venus-project-resource-based-economy/
         But I would agree that it is too little mention and yes TROM has focused more on it and it is very appreciated. ?
         You might be interested of this: “The funds will be used to:
         1.) further convert Jacque Fresco’s lectures into a more accessible form
         2.) begin engaging scholars to perform formal research on our behalf” https://www.thevenusproject.com/soul-campaign/

         1. 

            Yes Jacque talked about all of those things- the use of money, credits, barter, any other system of debt or servitude- which are all trade (by trade, I mean any means of exchange, not just barter), and maybe Jacque’s mentioned the word “trade” in a lecture or two, but I don’t see TVP focusing on trade as the problem, or even being open to understanding this concept. I had a super long conversation with the PoCs about this before I left the chat and nobody seemed to get it. Someone even said that it was inappropriate for me to talk about this and/or TROM in the PoC chat. When I asked them what they thought the main problem of the structure of the society was, some of them said money, others said scarcity, and others said that the problem wasn’t so important because they “have the solution.”

            Maybe if Jacque was alive, he would be open to understanding this idea, since it was basically what he was talking about. But unfortunately, he’s not around anymore and the ones left in TVP just repeat what he used to say and they don’t build upon any of his ideas, as far as I can see.

7. 

   Jacque wanted us to declare all world resources to all the people of the world. No one owns anything, and He never wanted to build an city in monetary system as far as I know. He wanted to talk to people first and get them to agree to the direction. He also mentioned that Never in our society that we thought about a future direction that we need to take to avoid the problems, we always react to problems which is just not optimal.

   1. 

      Building a city is a part of TVP’s plans, you can see it here: https://www.thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project/aims-and-proposals/ “Phase 4: Experimental Research City & Network of Cities”
      “A circular city would be a transitional phase and could evolve from a semi-cooperative money-oriented society to a resource based economy…”

      I don’t think the problem is that people react to problems, I think the problem is that in this society, people almost never dig deep enough to the root of the problems they react to. They think that corruption is a problem, so as a reaction they make more laws that don’t work, rather than asking “why is corruption a problem?” “is it because of human behavior?” “what causes human behavior?” “is it the environment?” “what is it about the environment that causes humans to behave in a corrupt manner?” “how can we change that?” etc.
      Jacque was also reacting to problems, but what I liked about him was that he thought much deeper about where these problems come from.

      1. 

         Why do u think there is corruption in the society?

         1. 

            Everyone needs to grow their own food for starters. That’s how you start a resource based economy. Increase resources. The original owners of land were conquerors. They owned the land cause they conquered it. It’s the same thing today. Scarcity is a problem bc of greed and govt regulation. You never actually own your property. You’re always partying taxes. Same thing with resources. Nestle has a multi million dollar contract to siphon the great lakes. Why? That’s absurd. RBE isn’t ACTUALLY a difficult concept. The problem is the 1%. It’s always been the 1%. It always will be. They hoard EVERYTHING and we get scraps. Example. Diamonds in Africa. They didn’t get to those mines legally. They did it through murder. The solution to all this is remove the people who are literally stealing the world’s resources.

            1. 

               The problem is that if you remove those people but you don’t change the structure of the society, other people will simply replace them and in the end nothing will change.

8. 

   Hi,

   I can see your point. I’m into TVP since 2009 and saw the same problem with hierarchical structures and people that are not far away from todays
   values and it often didn’t fit with the values that Fresco talked about. I still support the ideas of TVP and talk to people about them but I can’t support all the people who manage it today.
   Trade is of course the basic problem that Tio is focusing with TROM and I still have the original TVP maganzines he wrote. Very good work.
   Nevertheless I think the ideas of TVP are still the best bet, because it is a good starting framework for a better society. We actually don’t have any better framework, at least that I’m aware of.
   Last thing I want to say is about your concerns that people get influenced by the world today when they life in an experimental city,
   even if they know directions like TVP, TROM and so on. I can say for me at least it is hard to get back to old values completely,
   even if you need a job for a living because of the society we have today.
   So maybe an experimental city or campus could be a waste of time and ressources but we don’t know that till we tried such a project.
   And if it fails we should learn about what was not working instead of saying that was a bad idea overall.

   Greetings Stephan

   1. 

      Hey Stephan,

      You can find all the TVP magazine articles that Tio wrote on tromsite as well :) https://www.tromsite.com/books/

      I think TVP has many great ideas, including a great idea about a framework for a better society, but as I wrote in this blog, unfortunately, all of this is nothing more than an idea. And you can’t just “implement” an idea about how to better organize society without understanding the problem of your current society. Like, how is today’s society organized in the first place? Why is this a problem? etc.

      If you understand the problem, then you can try to tackle it in many different ways. Some ways may work, some may fail. Maybe an “experimental city” could be useful, but only if the people living in that city understood the problem and aimed to solve it.

      1. 

         Money is the root cause of all the problems directly or indirectly. This monetary system creating more problem than solution.

         1. 

            I agree with the second sentence, but I think you can take the first sentence one step further.
            Ask yourself, “what is money, anyway?” Money itself means absolutely nothing. On its own money is nothing but some pieces of paper or numbers on a computer screen. The harm that you see (like corruption and much more) is not created by the money itself, but by the action that money is being used for.

            As I wrote in this blog, – Money is a medium that people use to store value and to trade goods and services. We can try to focus on getting rid of money, but since money is just a medium, other mediums can take its place without actually changing what it was used for. If you buy products with cryptocurrencies as opposed to traditional money, not much will change; if you trade your data instead of your money to use certain websites, there will still be problems; if money is replaced with social credits, this will solve nothing. By focusing on money, you ignore other mediums (trades) that could be used to replace money, but will not solve the actual problem.

            So I would say that trade is the root cause of most problems directly or indirectly, rather than money.

9. 

   Hi Sasha, This was a well articulated and very informative read. I was researching cycle and resource based economies when I stumbled upon TVP. There’s honestly just so many issues with the world currently but most stem down to money. After reading your blog, I realized that it’s more to do with trade and the solution is to problem-solve through education+infrastructure. This read gave me a lot of hope as I discovered an individual such as yourself, who is so passionate about change and solving big problems with the world. I admire your journey and hope you continue to do great work in the future with the same dedication and spirit. Best wishes!

   1. 

      Thank you! It’s really great to hear that you understand my point :)

10. 

    This post was enlightening, as well as the discussions in the comments! Gave me clarity about where to direct focus and energy: pinpointing a specific and clear problem, spreading awareness of it, and finding incremental ways to solve it. Good point about all enormous changes being a result of small, incremental solutions to immediate problems rather than a grand unveiling of an entirely new, intricately planned system. It’s easy to dismiss such analysis as not applying to such a large change as the Venus Project is seeking… but if we look back at any of those situations (e.g., transportation and communication and electric power in the early 1900’s), it would have been similarly easy to dismiss the solutions we have today as being impossible to realize without a grand, comprehensive plan (such as a pre-planned network of roads across the country, a planned global satellite network for communication, telephone lines, etc.).

    1. 

       Thanks Cameron, nice to hear that you understand my point :) I guess people really like to “picture” a better world as an entire package. Maybe in the 1900’s some people pictured an entirely different world with a grand plan for transportation or communication. Would that picture resemble the world that we live in today? Probably not. That’s because society is extremely complicated. -it’s important that we don’t brush that aside.

11. 

    Hm, interesting text. And a long one :). I am not a big fan of long blogs like this, because I find it harder to get the universal point/message of the author. So, without much more words, is your point that the ideals and proposals of TVP (or Jacque’s ideas if you wish) are excellent, but the organization itself (people currently managing it) is not up to the task in terms of organization, implementation, education and in particular – idea’s advancement?

    What I mean by idea’s advancement is basically one of Jacque’s most important principles of his lifetime: Constant upgrade, change and hopefully betterment of the idea with new scientific and technological discoveries and advancements in most practical and logical ways. Even you mentioned that, in slightly different expression. You’ve said: Building upon his ideas.

    If that’s your point, even remotely, then I agree. I think that since Jacque’s death in 2017, TVP proposals weren’t upgraded very much. Maybe, I repeat, maybe I’ve missed something, and maybe there wasn’t big need, for now. Perhaps they are much more concentrating on funds for that infamous Center for Resource Management. But still that’s not excuse, it’s not very much in accordance with what Jacque was talking about, it’s not what TVP is about, and it’s extremely unlikely that during last few years there weren’t at least some new and potentially useful scientific discoveries which they could use and implement into the overall design to make it better.

    I’ve myself tried to become a volunteer, I’ve passed tests (quiz) quite easily, but in the last moment I’ve changed my mind. After detailed research I became a little bit disillusioned. This text of yours was just a confirmation. I was disillusioned not with the ideas and overall concept/proposals, nor with Jacque, but with the flawed organization. I had my doubts when I first got to know about TVP, I got my doubts about the organization and its efficiency, all that when my opinion about them was at its highest, but after my findings (pretty much 90% of your criticisms here) I’ve come to the final conclusion that Jacques ideas (RBE and other things) are truly and unquestionably worth studying, advancing and advocating, but it would be better and much more useful for me, hopefully for them and all of us :) that I remain on the sideline, to be a big, sincere, open but at the same time objective and independent supporter and advocate of TVP, not under the umbrella of the organization and volunteer team, both of which are managed by a good percentage of people who are, as you said “normal” people with “normal” values or way of thinking. Uneducated about what TVP/RBE is really about. Some of them, are even groosly incompetent. TVP is stagnating because of them. Sad reality is, as you’ve said: “The ones left in TVP just repeat what he (Jacque) used to say and they don’t build upon any of his ideas”.

    Sad but for now true, at least as far as we know. That way they are indirectly but essentially making religion or ideology out of TVP, which is the worst and the most erroneous thing they could do.

    Roxanne is not particularly incompetent, she is smart, very educated in many fields, but there shouldn’t be any hierarchy or authority, with or without her at the top. She should enjoy the respect from others as one of the founders, and should be notified, consulted about new ideas and asked for the opinion, but nothing more than that. Personal opinions after all, are essentially worthless if it is scientifically clear that the idea/proposal works.

    I do have one objection to your writing. I think you are too much underestimating the usefulness of the so called “grand, hollistic idea” approach. I’m not saying that it is the right or totally possible way, far from it, I agree that the world is changing in very small steps, by identifying individual problems and their roots and solving them. Jacque did emphasize that. His new world would actually be revolutionary in a sense that it would actually by itself encourage problem solving and constant learning. That would be the essence of that new civilization/society. He often said that if the “transition” ever happens, he was almost totally sure that world would be far from identical to his designs or assumptions. He said his project was just a basic framework – new beginning or new starting point for a new society and on global level. If his ideas are ever to be established with the level of success he had hoped for, it is very probable that that new “TVP world” would be, visually at the very least, incomparably more advanced and different than what we know today as The Venus Project in just few years after that “transition” comes to an end (if it ever comes to an end).

    I’m also under the impression that their “4 stage plan” for slow transition (evolution) is going to work only under some conditions. The one is that the first ever experimental city-university survives long enough to stand on its own feat and actually succesfully presents all advantages of that new RBE lifestyle. The other, is that they right know invest much more of their resources into education, but, as you said, not into mentor-making. For the success of the city, I believe it is essential that people who will first try to live in that city are honest supporters but at the same time objective and educated about the potential or prospects of that undertaking. It is not enough to “love” or even worse, “worship” TVP. Jacque was clear that he didn’t want that. Unquestioniably worshiping TVP/RBE that happens today is undesirable and bad for the project itself. Jacque wanted to be questioned as hardly as possible. To him, the biggest blessing would be if someone asked him the question about TVP that he couldn’t properly answer. Again, about experimental city, as an inhabitant, you should support the cause, but be scientifically educated, as objective as possible, truly understand TVP’s philosophy and most importantly, be ready for everything – potential failure, success etc…

    As Stephan Sauerwald here said, if that city fails, it should be thoroughly analyzed why it failed, how it failed, mark the advantages it had and try again, but differently, with new knowledge, instead of simply giving up and saying how it was a bad or nearly hopeless undertaking as you seem to say.

    Btw, I must admit I didn’t know about this other project TROM, I will look it up and see what its about. From your words, I’ve understood that it’s something like a fraternal twin sibling project to TVP (in my country Serbia, fraternal twins are called two-eged twins), which is understandable since as you’ve said the founder was in TVP and is therefore heavily influenced by it. But as the main difference, it concentrates on limited number of problems with much more detail and insight, if I’m not mistaken.

    Best wishes, Lazar

    1. 

       For someone that doesn’t like long blogs, that sure was a long comment :P

       To answer your question, I think that most of Jacque’s ideas are really great but the organization TVP is very poorly managed in my opinion and even contradicts some of Jacque’s ideas. In particular, two things that you mentioned here: “Constant upgrade, change and hopefully betterment of the idea with new scientific and technological discoveries and advancements in most practical and logical ways.” and “making religion or ideology out of TVP” Jacque wanted to be questioned, as you said, but the people in TVP don’t question anything that Jacque used to say or anything that Roxanne says (and they don’t really allow anybody else to do that either within the organization). That’s my perspective anyway, sadly.

       And the other point was that I don’t think they really understand what they’re fighting against. Some say that “money” is the problem, some say “scarcity” – I went over this in this blog. Some say “the entire system”- which, trust me, I agree with, but you kinda need to think deeper. Ask, what is it about the entire system that’s so fucked up? The fact that it’s based on profiting at the expense of everything else? Well what allows people to profit? Those are the kind of questions that we ask at TROM and after a ton of research, we came to the conclusion that this entire global society is based on the need to trade (I have to go to work to trade my time and energy for money, I have to trade money for food, clothes, shelter and anything else I want. I trade my privacy/data to use Facebook, Facebook trades this data for money. And so on) and this is a problem. You can read about this idea in detail in the book I linked to https://www.tromsite.com/books/#dflip-df_6562/1/ – and that’s the main idea behind the TROM project.

12. 

    Wow , this blew my mind away , that someone else thought about the trade and problem solving just like me , I’m speechless , I’m a 22 year old person who just lost the last hope I had of RBE fully , what do you Suggest I do , should I become a capitalist myself and watch the world burn or should I focus on problem solving that no one cares and starve , your answer will he life changing for me!!!

    1. 

       Haha definitely don’t become a capitalist :D That’s really great that you’ve been thinking the same about trade and problem solving! Super happy to hear that! :) You’re always welcome to participate in or get in touch with us at TROM – this idea about trade and problem solving is the core idea of this project. You can see http://www.tromsite.com We also have a big book about this subject: https://www.tromsite.com/books/#dflip-df_6562/1/ So maybe we’re just a few people but we do care ;) but don’t starve either! I made a page that explains how I manage to not starve, maybe it would help :) https://www.bigworldsmallsasha.com/traveltips/

13. 

    Well said! You have a very good understanding of the big picture, and I just want to add that without trade or reward of some kinds, nobody will want to do the shitty and risky jobs that somebody need to do. Until automation an robotic can fully remove all these jobs that nobody want to do, we cannot avoid trade.

    I seen how fucked up the world is and how Capitalism is a imply unsustainable in the long run too.

    1. 

       Thanks :)
       I do agree that automation is very important and that is talked about in the book that I linked to in this blog (about the whole concept- https://www.tromsite.com/books/#dflip-df_6562/1/ ) but I would also not ignore the great organizations that exist today that do provide trade-free goods and services, even in this shitty system :)
       We made a trade-free directory that showcases some of these organizations, you can see it here: https://www.trade-free.org/directory/

       An interesting example is RNLI, which is a volunteer lifeguard service in the UK and Ireland. The volunteers risk their own lives to save others, and they do this without asking for anything in return. So far, they have saved the lives of more than 140,000 people. You can see a documentary series about them here: https://www.videoneat.com/documentaries/4706/saving-lives-sea/ :)

    2. 

       Damn lady, you sure do like to complain! Why are all of these comments in the EXACT same writing style? Why are they all bible length replies like yours also?? 🤷‍♂️ Anyway, if you listen to Jacque, he said “I like to present solutions, not attack and pick things apart that won’t help. I don’t know what the point of this article is but it doesn’t feel like there is any good intentions there, like at ALL! You sound like a privileged capitalist trying to disrupt the movement. Your words:

       “When I was a kid, my father took my brother and me to places like Tunisia, Morocco and Mexico, where we saw other kids living on the streets and begging for money, or begging us tourists to buy bananas or souvenirs. I noticed homeless people everywhere, from Moscow to New York..”

       I hope you learn to change this approach. They have said they do not have all the solutions. Rather than let go of your Russian teams beef for the greater good of humanity, you quit bc you didn’t have the patience to deal with it, bc things like hunger, the enviroment and humankind are not your top priority. It sounds like you guys tried hustle her out of the trusts and wrote this negative piece in retaliation or something petty that you youtselves are just as responsible for dropping the ball on.

       1. 

          By the “EXACT same writing style” you mean all of these comments are in English? :D I don’t see any other “EXACT same” similarities to them.

          I don’t mean to “attack” TVP with this post, I’m simply describing my experience with the organization and pointing out the flaws that I see in the organization and the organization’s future plans. If TVP really cares about changing the world then they shouldn’t see criticism as an attack, and same goes for you. If there is something specific that you disagree with in this post please feel free to point that out.

          If to “pick things apart” means to scrutinize then I have to disagree with you. I think it’s very important to pick things apart, observe, examine and think critically about any idea or organization that you encounter. If by “pick things apart” you mean “cherry pick”? Then I would suggest for you to point out the cherries that I missed.

          It’s unfortunate that you don’t understand the point of this article. Did you read it all? Is there something specific that is not clear to you or that you disagree with?

          I didn’t quit TVP because I didn’t have the patience to deal with it or because the things you mentioned are not my top priority. I quit because I disagree with TVP’s approach- and that’s what this article is about. I no longer agree that this idea of an RBE can be “implemented” in any way, especially through building cities. People have had many great ideas about how to organize our society in the past, but when they tried to implement these ideas they always failed. Why? Because society is extremely complex, as is human behavior. So rather than coming up with a great idea about how to organize our society better, I think a more realistic approach would be to understand what’s wrong with it in the first place. If you don’t know what’s wrong with this society, then it’s extremely unlikely that you’ll be able to implement a better kind of society (such as an RBE), no matter how nice it sounds.

          I also understood through experience that TVP is extremely incompetent. They blew $200,000 on a movie script. Do you really expect them to be able to build a city? Even if they manage to build one, how would this change anything? More likely, the society will change the people in TVP’s cities rather than the other way around.

          Towards the end of the blog, I hope I’ve made it clear that I’m not simply “giving up”, instead, I’m helping TROM because I think that TROM has a much better approach to problem solving than TVP.

14. 

    This is very well said. If it’s any solace, I have a very plausible and realistic solution to helping the world transition into a resource-based economy. I’m just starting out but my life is dedicated to implementing this plan. In other words, I’m not doing anything else.

    1. 

       I think its as good as time as any to try something new. reaching out to like minded people trying to get in this discussion and enact change. i personally think a resource based economy is an inevitability and anything to help build understanding in our society is critical.

15. 

    You wrote all of this, and a lot of it is smart, don’t get me wrong, but you still don’t understand the world jacque fresco is proposing. The problems you have outlined here as problems do not exist. There are already people who live without money and have been doing so for years and years. Places with their own universities, lifestyle, etc. Cut off from the world. These people are already living in a society capable of basic human kindness and not troubled by things we see as human motivations such as greed, power, control.

    1. 

       What do you think I don’t understand about the world that Jacque Fresco is proposing?
       “The problems you have outlined here as problems do not exist.”- What do you mean by this? I outlined 3 main problems that lead to more problems: money, scarcity and trade. Even Jacque Fresco and others at TVP will argue that these problems do exist.
       Can you give me an example of a place with their own universities, lifestyle, etc. that have been living without money, cut off from the world, and are not troubled by greed, power and control? I haven’t heard of any examples, but even if there are some, what’s your point?

16. 

    Thank you for writing this. I had a similar experience of discovering and investing years of time and energy into a project I thought represented a new paradigm for living. Your take aways and insights from your experience helped me to deepen my understanding of my own experience :) wishing you a happy future and good health.

    1. 

       Thank you Sara, all the best to you too :)

17. 

    I was an enthusiast member for some years, but at some point, they told me on the Team speak, Knowing the logical fallacies wasn’t the real critical thinking. So I left… It was obviously a bunch of idiots. I asked to speak with a founder or someone in charge, but they told me no one was in charge and I could never actually ask Roxanne or anyone. I was also blacklisted from the Zeitgeist movement for criticizing some of the supporters who didn’t really understand TVP…

    The FUnny part is that I’ve had a personal vision of this type of society, way before Fresco even spoke about it, I became interested because it was basically my idea, with a lot more work and thoughts put into it. But when idiots think they know better than you… you leave and you let them sabotage their own project with their ignorance…

    Good Luck though.

    1. 

       haha yeah sometimes it’s better just to leave and do your own thing

18. 

    Nothing can operate 100% human free
    Maybe 80% automation
    What if i take care of your lower tier maslow needs for a reasonable amount of labor
    The inca way
    Would that be a fair trade for worlds population?

    1. 

       There’s not really such thing as “fair trade” in a system where everyone’s main goal is to make a profit. The need to trade will always create an imbalance of power, and this will create problems

19. 

    https://youtu.be/hIKnTKEI66I

    Placeholder concept
    YouTube: baukunst2000
    Planning to develop it as a grad program thesis

    If u have any interest don’t be a stranger
    There aren’t many of us believers

    1. 

       “believers” in what? :)

20. 

    The whole rbe and no trade thing
    It’s a belief system that is uncommon
    Not too many of us see the world this way
    A new religion is brewing
    What’s encouraging is that your generation can bring change
    Most of you see the guy with the 300 ft long yacht and react in a negative way
    Will ping you offline but I’m always game for dialogue

    1. 

       I would hate for people to interpret what I’m saying as a “religion”. Religions are basically all based on some stories and the people that believe these stories have no evidence to validate their claims. What I would rather see is people taking a more scientific approach towards problem-solving. Don’t just “believe” in what I’m saying. Question it. Question everything and everyone, including your own beliefs.
       My main point in this blog was that from my observations (based on a ton of evidence), I can see that trade creates a lot of problems. I recommend these two books that describe this in detail and provide a ton of sources to back up these claims- https://www.tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-df_6616/1/ https://www.tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-df_6562/1/
       The “rbe thing” – I think that the idea of an rbe is a nice inspirational idea, but that’s basically it. If you “believe” in rbe but you don’t understand what’s wrong with our current society, then this “belief” will lead you nowhere (kinda like religion).

21. 

    Referring to above
    It’s really more of an understanding
    You take what you need and do some set of hours per week helping to run the system

    The aliens in the film the host had this
    Take what you need approach

    I think over time people can be trained to act this way

    No fear of poverty war or crime

    What so you?

22. 

    I’m glad I ss my post bc I had a feeling you wouldn’t allow my comment. Thats fine but it does comfirm everything I believe and when anyone asks me about trom or your nasty article, I will make sure to let them know exactly what I think about it, along with the comment censorship on your ‘blog’ itself. A Russian TVP scam using another Russian tvp scam as a sleight of hand lol.

    1. 

       What are you talking about? Your comment is posted above (you replied underneath Wong Boon Hong) and I replied to it yesterday.

23. 

    Please diregard my last comment in ref to not posting the previous, I guess it just took a couple days.

    Anyway, I did read your article, I tried to take the time to read your private email correspondence but it seemed like just more of the same. You spoke about getting derailed over such things as: Who gets to control the trusts, gains control over tvp assests when they die, btw, why would you even be asking them about things like that as opposed to, gee idk, adding new technologies that to help with project development, creative solutions to the human nature issue as you specified?? Yes, when there is an issue, the only way to correct it is to first acknowledge it. However, there is a difference between constructive criticism and creating an entire bible length blog pointing out every single petty thing you didn’t like about them. If you want to achieve a better outlook for humanity then propose solutions.

    You said that they blew $200k on a movie. According to tvps website, they have received a total of $77 k as of 2019. I’m not going to argue that wasting that much money on a movie is wasteful and foolish but what are your references to prove that what you are saying is true or that they are wrong?

    1. 

       Where did I write about things like who gets to control their trusts and assets when they die?
       I actually didn’t point out every single thing that I didn’t like about TVP, I wrote only about the things that I thought were important: how TVP is managed, its problems with communication and collaboration, and it’s plan to change the world. All of these things are very important if TVP actually wants to change the world. Again, if there is something specific that you disagree with or that you think is nonconstructive criticism then you can point that out.

       I did propose a solution in the end: it’s to understand that society changes through problem solving, not through envisioning or demoing a better society. What problem should we aim to solve? Trade. I linked to a big book all about this topic https://www.tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-df_6562/1/ That’s my proposal- for people to read that book and understand this problem. Once they understand the problem, they can try to do something about it.

       I said that TVP blew $200k on a movie script. “Finally, in 2011, a successful crowdfunding campaign raised $200,000 to begin development of a script.” https://www.thevenusproject.com/major-motion-picture-history-progress-report/
       I’m not trying to bash them about this but I think it’s important to point this out because building a city is going to be a hell of a lot more complicated than making a movie script. I even wrote “I understand that there were difficulties with this movie script, but there will certainly be more difficulties with a ‘Center for Resource Management,’ and of course with an entire city and future network of cities. If TVP hasn’t been able to produce a movie script in so many years with $200,000 of donations, then I just cannot be confident that TVP will be able to build such an expensive ‘Center for Resource Management,’ let alone an entire city and a network of cities that are supposed to change the entire world.

24. 

    I tried verifying the crowdfunding link but it just leads back to their site which I didn’t see anything about paying $200k for a script.

    Anyway, upon further exmination, you are correct about some things. I.e They seem to be smug people who honestly don’t care about leading their fellow man, they are expecting all of the educated to run to their rescue and all come together to form their own city of pretentious college educated people, simultaneously excluding and overlooking the majority
    . Not taking into account that the people with these elite college degrees and credentials they are looking for are already set up comfortably in this system and are not going to just risk wasting their time and money on something that most likely will never happen. If only there was a non smug, israel connected venus project. Sorry for dismissing you initially, when I’m wrong I will admit it. I’m sorry.

    1. 

       No problem. I’m not sure that that’s really what they’re looking to do. I’d still like to believe that the people at TVP are well-intentioned even if their plans don’t work out or don’t seem realistic.

       About the link- it says “in 2011, a successful crowdfunding campaign raised $200,000 to begin development of a script” on their site here https://www.thevenusproject.com/major-motion-picture-history-progress-report/ I don’t think they would have written that themselves if it wasn’t the truth.

25. 

    Hello everyone. As a btw… I am 42 and this is my first ever blog so please forgive me if I engage in any faux pas. I absolutely love the discourse and approach to problem solving here but I believe a couple of points are being overlooked here. One: the belief that society as a whole needs a “perfect” solution to our current problems before putting their whole support behind a complete change in their social/political/economic status quo. We need only look at history to prove that isn’t the case. A small group of individuals dared to defy a political and military powerhouse because of ideals they believed were in the best interests of all. And did this, not only without the expressed consent of all those concerned, but also without a plan that was “triple-checked” using the scientific method. And yet, while obviously not perfect, the Constitution of these United States was borne, and that society was able to throw off the yoke of imperialism. And we all benefitted from it. Are we somehow so sure that it can’t happen again that we are willing to lose “good-enough” in pursuit of “perfection”, which can always come after the fact? Which brings me to my second point: Isn’t our urgency here because we are up against a very real, and very doom-and-gloom timeline: The ever-present environmental “point-of-no-return”? As I see it, the scientific community, although well-intended in their reasons for it, will have a fact-proven, scientific method used, solution right around the time when the majority of people on all the continents have evolved to breathe under water. I don’t mean to sound flippant. Tme should be spent on these issues we see in the inherent design, and implementation of TVP and other projects like it. But do we have that time now? Or should we be starting something, somewhere, NOW and we will fix the cracks along the way. If we bicker and debate about societies willingness or unwillingness to support the system that we ALL(except a few deniers) agree is needed to prevent a disastrous shift in global climate, a lot of resources we have now, to utilize, will be gone. Among other predicted, and unpredicted, consequences. I certainly believe it will be easier to implement anyone’s idea while we still have the current landmass, resources, and predictable weather patterns we enjoy today? Not to mention the conspiracy theory/fact that outside opposing forces have stopped movements dead, with nothing more than encouraging the participants to never come to a common motivating goal. I may not have an answer but I do know that Jaques, and others, have a place for us to start. So how about we start. We know what we need now, short-term. Let’s get that ball rolling and we’ll at least have an Earth that we recognize while we’re planning and building for our ideal, sustainable (economically, socially and scientifically), future.
    Thank you for listening

26. 

    Your feedback page looks not workable (I had forbidden all dirty technologies and the feedback page is full of them). Why simply not show your email as a picture?

    1. 

       Oh thanks for letting me know. There must have been a problem. Good idea, I’ll add my email to the page. (It’s contact@bigworldsmallsasha.com)

27. 

    The right ideas can fall into the wrong hands. I don’t blame Jacque, and as a fellow engineer I want to see his ideas tested to the maximum – and disproven if possible. I don’t blame the people at TVP either because they are only as effective as their outreach, or the people they pull in, and so on (and so on). So what it comes down to is you must blame everyone for being so blinded by traditionalism, and not being able to see (with systems-thinking) the flaws perpetuated by our current situation.

    1. 

       I think it’s better not to blame people but instead to understand what causes them to behave/react the way they do :)

28. 

    Do you suspect that the disorganization when you were involved with the project was related to Jacques failing health? I believe he died in 2017 and Roxanne had to manage the project and take care of Jacque.

    It is sad, that it took as long as it did for Jacque’s ideas to reach the amount of people it did. I mean, when you got involved wasn’t he like 100?

    I can’t imagine what it must have been like for him to be born in 1916 and have the ideas that he had. They seem so futuristic, but not impossible, even today 2020!
    It must have been an uphill battle for him

    1. 

       I’m sure it wasn’t easy for Roxanne and others to deal with Jacque’s deteriorating health, so I’m sure this was a contributing factor, but I doubt that all of this disorganization was only a result of that. From what I know, people have had similar experiences with TVP even when Jacque was capable of taking care of himself. I linked to a few “resignation letters” and blogs from other people who had volunteered for TVP and quit for similar reasons, some come from earlier years. I don’t know the whole story with Peter Joseph, but I believe that he has also said that it was very difficult to work with TVP, even when Jacque was alive and well.

       I’m sure it was an uphill battle for Jacque, as you say, so surely it wasn’t easy. I still have a lot of respect for his life’s work despite my criticism of the organization.

       If it is the case that all of these problems were a result of Jacque’s deteriorating health, then I would hope to see some changes from TVP now.

29. 

    Hi Sasha,
    I’d like to present you with my story. I am a geographer, so when I learned of TVP I realised the concept resonated strongly with my BSc in Geographic information systems – and with what I hoped to achieve in my career. I found TVP rather aloof and uncommunicative, so ended up getting involved more in the Zeitgeist movement. Peter Joseph made strong arguments about how jealous and rigidly controlling Jacque and Roxanne were, and how the concept needed greater creative freedom and cultural diversity than they would allow for it to become a coherent evolutionary force for humanity.
    Back in 2012 things were exciting. We’d seen the Arab spring and the occupy movement, anonymous and their guy-fawkes-masked hacktivism . The system was exposed and discredited, and the online community were flocking in their hundreds of thousands with a voice that seemed to be developing the potential to overwhelm the existing institutions. TZM were talking about the global redesign institute, an open source distributed community approach to experimental projects for transition.
    Meanwhile, in the mainstream political arena, encouraging progress was being made by Jeremy Rifkin’s third industrial revolution economic development plan, involving democratised green energy shared through internet smartgrids, stored and integrated with plug – in electric transport. German chancellor Angela Merkel is a physicist as well as a politician, and asked Jeremy Rifkin to develop a masterplan for the country. So did president Li of China. 2 million plus homes in Germany have since become their own home-power stations, with energy companies adopting new business models to act as aggregators of networks – infrastructure through which people can generate free green energy and get optimised benefit from it. That infrastructure has 40% aggregate energy efficiency. The old system can’t compete with this, as it’s own centralised grids are limited to about 15%. So the best the established players can do is adopt such business models, or lose out to other companies who would grab that business instead. The next steps are to adopt local manufacturing, urban farming, waste recycling and skills-teaching green enterprises which themselves use that green energy – inducing society into a post-scarcity, regenerative arcology network. As it grows, more and more resources are driven to near-zero marginal cost – hence shrinking the role of money in meeting human needs.
    I put a lot of effort into trying to persuade TZMUK to put their energy and passion behind The third industrial revolution as a foundational step to transition for the UK. However I found the naive ideologues who had flocked to TZM were not willing to entertain any compromise to their puritanical moneyless principles, and I was labelled as a fascist and a capitalist for daring to support anything that still required the use of money. Free from Roxanne’s rigid dictates TZM may be, but it’s recklessly democratic format has meant it has been co-opted by angry socialist workers, vegan fundamentalists, conspiracy theorists, drug liberalisers and pseudoscience hippies, as a platform for promoting their own passions and beliefs. Science itself has become just an elitist narrative to be denigrated as an extension to capitalism.
    I still believe Jeremy Rifkin’s model holds great potential as a blueprint for the first stage of transition, and that activists could do a lot in promoting the development of local TIR plans and associated green productive projects building on them. If you’ve not read Mr Rifkin’s ‘The zero marginal cost society, its a compelling read. I have a project proposal of my own I’d be happy to share with you. I’m on thatdavelucas@btinternet.com if you’d like me to email it over.

    1. 

       Thanks for the summary :) I’m not sure how compatible Rifkin’s ideas are with what I was talking about in this blog, but I haven’t read that book yet so I can’t say much about it. I’ll put it on my list ;)
       I recommend this book to give you a better idea of what I was talking about in this blog- https://www.tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-df_6562/

30. 

    REGARDING THE DREAM

    I totally agree – this would have been ideal – manufacture in the center – live in nature – have basic entertainment needs in the houses
    use mass production means to produce things – it takes now one day with few people (using plc technology not Artifical intelligence to make the factories totally self sustainable as it would remove the meaningfulness of life of job satisfaction)

    ALTERNATIVE to resource based economy – i’d suggest a time based economy

    if it takes 5 hours to recycle materials and to produce a tv then you should only need to work for 5 hours leaving one with personal satisfaction that they were part of the process

    i had the idea of a time based economy – government work maybe at say 1.1x for 1 hour of work (i originally thought that it should be 1.5x time 15 years ago)
    i was thinking this after thinking that the profits at the end of the year say 80% should be equally distributed amongst the employees regardless of their role – being a decent incentive.

    CURRENT SITUATION – 2021

    but now we produce items that took 100 people 5 day in one day with the use of 5 -10 people in one day – this leaves the dilemma of that more you produce an item the more
    it is availible the cheaper it gets – effectively meaning people need to work more to cover their wages to cover their living costs – causing nothing then the production of more landfill and business going bank rupt – causing bosses to find cost saving – causing further work dis satifaction – causing depression causing anger causing anxiety
    causing less productivity of employees – causing the stick to be used more and more causing further business downfall – loss of personal property and increasing and every going downfall of the economy…

    not to have more kids for the sake of fueling the economy – causing the issue to become bigger not better

    i can say alot more – but what the point – no one listens – so i don’t care…

    education should also include things like being considerate, consideration, courtosey, tolorence , to think before acting, to think before speaking, having as much time as one needs to think things through – things i was educated in year 3 of primary school (unfortunately this education was at the fore front after corporal punishment was finally deemed as counter productive) – to take a step back – have no expectations as circumstances change

    To teach people how to think and act – not what to think

    teach by showing and allowing people to flip through history information and make sure they understand the logic and reasons why not its not done like this anymore
    not by putting someone through it, not by making them study every detail.

    education through tv series – gene rodenburry series – star trek, andromeda, earth final conflict, babylon 5…… star wars or star trek>????

    im not sure i can really say more – obviously i can expand on all these topics, but there is absolutely no point

    the incentive would be the love of life, the love of sucesss , the love of working smarter not harder
    and NOT for the insanity of the fake love of money as it does not provide those things – sanity over vanity – quality over quantity

    then vanity and quanity is achieve overtime
    (can have the same quality of life wether it be a mansion or a small apartment with the same basic necessities – mazda 3 or lambo/lexus – etc

    Regards

    Soop

    as smart as a geek but as cool as a cat

31. 

    Thanks Sasha for your work.
    I had similar experience with TVP. But..
    It seems that all problems you have found in TVP are result of bed communication and understanding basics. I suggest TVP should create main rules made from Fresco ideas in 20-30 commandment (like Decalogue) At present there are no express terms. This should help because complex of humans mind.

32. 

    Thank you Sasha! I read your whole post, half of all the comments, and your responses to them too. You totally got it. The problems and ideas you shared are so well articulated. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences! You also wrote some very thought provoking and core-striking replies to some of the comments. As a somewhat optimistic person who cares alot about the future of society, I found this post very helpful. Thank you very much!

    1. 

       Thank you, Rose :)

33. 

    What is your opinion on Copiosis? I think its the blueprint which makes Rbe into reality in 100-200years..

    1. 

       I don’t think there is any point of having a “blueprint” of how to structure our entire society. Our society is too complicated and dynamic to change with any sort of “grand plan” of how to organize itself, unfortunately. That was the point of this blog (towards the end)- to point out that we should focus on problem solving, rather than on envisioning a different kind of society.

34. 

    Excellent – Thank you for putting so much effort into the endeavor. Your account is very detailed and appreciated.
    I gave up on this whole project years ago myself after being devoted for about a decade. I am sorry, I just see the
    entire problem, humans themselves. Some people have the capacity to understand and to actually care – but the
    vast majority of humans are just too apathetic, ignorant and lazy. It’s a damn shame.

    1. 

       Yeah but don’t forget that humans are a product of their environment. I’d say it’s mostly the trade-based environment that we live in that makes most humans apathetic, ignorant, lazy, also very busy (too busy to care) and so on. If you change the environment, you can change the human. That is of course very complicated as well though..

35. 

    The challenge is that a RBE is a completely different paradigm, and one cannot understand this as embedded within our capitalist monetary paradigm that we are currently in. Also, people really need to “unlearn what they have learned”, and open their mind thoroughly, in order to even begin to understand what TVP would really look like, actualized. For the majority of the human population, this really isn’t possible, and THIS IS THE PROBLEM/CHALLENGE. It’s not enough to just put the information out there, because without the necessary guidance and explanations, it’s too easy for most people to just gloss over this, and dismiss it outright.

    Unfortunately, this shift will likely only take place when things in our current paradigm get bad enough, because as human history shows, humans only act when they are forced to do so, out of necessity, fear, or both. If we can get to this point, which will be perilous and dangerous, and get through that without resorting to another global conflict, and not kill one another, than out of that carnage should emerge TVP. But, this is asking a lot of humanity, because thus far, cooperation and collaboration is generally accomplished through force, and not voluntarily, because selfishness and greed drives too many people in our world. Knowing when you have enough, and that all your needs can be met, is the point where someone ought to allow the prosperity that is generated to trickle over to others, so they don’t need to go without. This is asking a lot of humans in 2021.

36. 

    Sasha let me just say I appreciate that fact that you instead of most people who feel upset about something took your time to travel and experience life and put yourself in a situation where you could better understand the issues instead of look at them from a far. You also went to experience the Venus project which says more then most if not all of the people commenting here, people are always quick to Judge from a far, this Kristo dude is a douche lol and that guy who hates long blogs and wrote a small novel? You had an experience and you submerged yourself into and you gave your input, honestly watching these documentaries and listening to Roxanne speak I understand what your saying she doesn’t seem easy to work with. Honestly my biggest problem with this project is never throughout society has everything been just given to you without you having to work, what is now your meaning or purpose of life? People got fulfillment from creating goods, cooking, growing and gardening, etc I understanding that jobs in the stock market, marketing, etc are horrible for life and that’s not what I’m talking about but I have 85 year old Italian neighbor who is outside doing some sort of work everyday, he is always smiling, wether it be his connection to nature, his fulfillment from completing a task, or just his body and mind having meaning and job to complete, I believe that that is very important to the functionality of society. Let me know your imput! Again I loved your post and your experience don’t let this people critique your journey!

    1. 

       Thanks Riley :) I think people could find real meaning and purpose in life if they weren’t forced into useless jobs and if their “education” didn’t revolve around training for those jobs (but instead revolved around gaining an understanding of our world, our environment, and ourselves). I never saw any meaning or purpose to any type of work that I did for money. I saw purpose and meaning in traveling and learning about the world, in volunteering for TVP and TROM, in starting my own project, and in a lot of other things that I wasn’t paid for. There are a billion projects that people can do as volunteers- this is meaningful work that can give you purpose, there are a trillion things you can learn about the world – the more you learn, the more excited you can get about the hundreds of billions of galaxies in our universe, about the microcosmos inside ourselves, about the countless species on our planet, etc., but most people are too busy for this because in this society, people spend most of their time either consuming or being consumed.

       So I think in a saner society, more people should get a chance to be more like your neighbor- garden if you enjoy gardening, do whatever makes you smile, relax, contribute to some good-natured projects, and grow your mind. Through this they should find some meaning and purpose :)

37. 

    a wife with a very toxic personality was fresco waterloo followed by a group of people who never shared his view.
    its sad but fresco’s legacy was the existence of scammers in all countries using his dream to make money

    to create a better world its necessary to build something that doesn’t yet exist on this planet.
    and to do something like that one must get rid of the negative possessive ego without ending in some weird cult or shady group

38. 

    I’ve been off the Internet for 6 years & just got back on this week
    – still very little worth looking at :(
    The world is definitely getting worse ! The only good thing about Covid-19 is the financial disruption that points out how stupid Capitalism is … but people are too dumb to realize it.

    I’ve studied & talked with quite a few work & housing co-ops around the world, both starting & firmly established (40 to 100yrs), as well as TVP. Tried teaching Alternative Societies, Communes, Co-Ops & RBE to people over 50yrs-old but found that most are far too skeptical & comfortable in current society to give it any consideration. Describing how to convert a Capitalist society to an RBE, the benefits (much lower crime etc) & of course the abolition of the banking, financial & insurance industry & converting those jobs to worthwhile work was too shocking to them. Only one “student” understood – she was a sociology grad. & had spent 3 months living with a native tribe in the Philippines.

    We should not talk about RBE (Resource-based Economy)
    but about RBS (Resource-based Society).
    To most people anything with the word “Economy” in it means it uses Money. I’ve found that most words used in describing RBE need to be clearly explained as the meanings in general society is are not properly understood by most.
    I’ve seen other terms like “Democratic-Communism” which are RBE but are too tainted by the West with visions of Stalin’s Russia. Russia & China are both now becoming Capitalist Dictatorships. I found that describing RBE in terms of Nature helped. Consider animal societies like Lions, Dolphins, Bees etc … all are resource-based, working together to gather food which is shared with the group ….. without Money.

    An RBE requires people to re-learn what their mothers taught them at the age of 2 or 3 … to share what they have, whether it be toys or all resources. Don’t be greedy, be satisfied with “sufficient” for your real needs which are both material (air, food, water, clothes, shelter) and intellectual (companionship, art in all its forms, purpose & achievement etc).
    It’s your Thinking & Behaviour that makes you sophisticated, not your clothes, possessions or technology.
    The Kibbutz creed :- “from each as they can give, to each as they need”.

    The e-book “Sharing is Good” by Beth Buczynski.
    “How to Save Money, Time and Resources through Collaborative Consumption” may be a good first step for the masses to learn.

    RBE “could” be achieved in a smallish country within 50 – 100 yrs. However, like the early Kibbutzim, that country would have to be so poor that the majority of the population would want to listen & become educated on RBE in order to improve their lives.

    Alternative Thinking – challenge the Conventional.

39. 

    I like how eckhart tolle says there’s no such thing as problems, just challenges. Problems are something the mind creates. It must take a huge ego to think they can ‘solve’ all the problems of the world. Instead of just accept that as long as we have a mind, we will have ‘problems’. Thanks for reminding me of eckhart, and of my own ego, I found u because of it – trying to figure out the problem of how to save the world again haha ..
    I like how you came to the conclusion of problem solving, maybe it is similar to overcoming a challenge

    1. 

       Yeah of course we will never be able to solve all the world’s problems, but some problems can be remediated.

       Eckhart Tolle was probably talking more about personal problems/challenges- if you see your problems as problems, you may never get a handle on them, but if you see them as challenges, then that’s something to overcome. That might help some people get through a hard time.

       As for other problems…
       – If a huge asteroid was heading towards Earth I’d see that as a problem (and a challenge too- sure), but I wouldn’t say that that problem’s been created by my mind. I can choose to not worry about the asteroid, sure, but when it hits Earth it may destroy me. NASA scientist and engineers, on the other hand, may figure out a way to redirect the asteroid so that it doesn’t hit Earth (that’s something they’re starting to work on), but they won’t be able to do that solely with their minds.

       – Slavery is another problem that still exists. There are children enslaved in cobalt mines, chocolate plantations, factories, and other places. I think it would be unfair to say that these poor kids’ “being enslaved” problem is just in their minds, or in someone else’s mind. Sure you can say that slavery is a “challenge” but I’d definitely still say it’s a problem and we shouldn’t just accept it. Same with climate change, pollution, waste, inequality, the destruction of the natural environment, etc. – These are challenges, sure, but they’re also problems, and not only problems that exist in our minds.

40. 

    Maybe try to change people’s thinking?

    Giving gifts to each other without requiring a gift back is not taxable.

    Maybe doing this would start people to realize that we do not need barter and money?

    Maybe we should trust each other?

41. 

    “Giving gifts to each other without requiring a gift back is not taxable.”
    Hmm, I bet the Tax Dept. says otherwise :-)

    “change people’s thinking?”

    Really, really hard to do. Make a blockbuster movie to show how with many famous faces ?… no, cost too much & would only attract the already converted. A StarTrek movie (as per Roddenberry’s society idea) based on Earth would work for popularity but the movie companies would do the usual & smother the message with CGI whiz-bang again. Probably the best intelligent movies for thinking people are made by vey small independent producers on small budgets (under US $5mil.).

    I think the best way to educate on RBE is to get our educated, intelligent, well spoken people interviewed on national programs that address current affairs. In the US, the CBS morning show, 60 Minutes etc may be ok. But in my country our 60 Minutes show has been a joke for over 20 years (shallow, checkbook journalism) – the best one here is a Radio National program usually with subjects only for “highbrows”.

    I found that it takes at least seven one-hour classes to teach RBE, how it can work & where it has worked for over 50yrs in the real world. Unfortunately most people in Western countries are too well off to care – “I’m OK, stuff you” is the usual attitude :-(

    Should we abandon the Western world & start educating Third-world peoples ? Like the homeless, they already have an understanding of how bad Capitalism is.

42. 

    Completely agree with the part that the TVP organization has serious problems.

    I looked into TVP many years ago, tried to join as a volunteer and very quickly realized they had a lot of internal struggles and bottlenecks, most things were bottlenecked at one person who wouldn’t delegate any part of their responsibilities to anyone else and generally the attitude of people in TVP ressemble that of a cult where you are criticized or even banned for questioning how things are done.

    I also quickly realized they spent a crazy amount of time “protecting” their work and ideas, afraid that someone will steal them, it felt very counterintuitive that such a puny little project with barely any funding or traction was so obsessed about intellectual property when they’re promoting a free-for-all society.

    My conclusion is that even though the concept is cool, the real world will simply evolve paste TVP on it’s own, while TVP will stay stuck in time and eventually die off when the leadership dies of old age.

    Money is just a measure of value we give to something. Money itself has no value unless we, the people, give it a value.
    Therefore this entire hate war against money is just stupid since it’s just a way to measure what people value.

    Would RyanAir exist if nobody valued it’s services? No. Why not? Nobody would be willing to buy their tickets.
    Would Prada exist is nobody cared about their products? No. Because nobody would be willing to pay such high price.
    Yet the fact is, people are not robots. They have cravings, desires, dreams, which motivate them to do more than the bare minimum to survive.

    TVP ignores that fact and assumes people can somehow become robots and all function the same in harmony which is against natural diversity.
    We are all genetically different and by consequence that guarantees we will never all agree on the same thing, not even close to that, because that’s how natural diversity works, to guarantee the survival of the specie.
    Those people obsessed with Doomsday who built bunkers are those who are usually wrong, until one day, eventually, Doomsday does happen. Then those will be the survivors and perpetuate the specie.
    Everyone with their own crazy different beliefs is right in a potential version reality. We need people obsessed with all those different potential realities to be prepared for whatever comes.

    So in this way the concept sounds dreamy and cool, TVP leadership and as an organization DOES NOT represent the concept well because as far as I see it, the structure is similar to a government with very little real collaboration where a few decision makers make the decisions and due to that cause a giant bottleneck and stop any innovations or progress from happening.

    People who are smart, creative and productive will be put off by the innefficiency and bureaucracy of the organization, those who are more sheepish and easy to brainwash will be those joining the organization because they got nothing else important to do, thus creating no real measurable outcome in the end.

    The same person who was causing the bottleneck and refused to delegate any tasks to me or anyone… then when he realized I have a real business, he asked me for a job. That’s how absurd it is.

    Anyway you can all try it out for yourselves, I think waiting for several months to be a volunteer is instantly a deal-breaker and reveals total lack of organization and efficiency.

43. 

    Summary of this article, following a skim of it’s contents: Building an entirely new world is a double enormous challenge: 1) building an entirely new world is a huge challenge and will take a long time 2) getting everybody to agree on what to build and how to build it is a… [same thing] So: take-away: you’ve gotta be in this thing for the long run. Either take the time necessary to define your own own world, or the time necessary to get to know everybody else who shares similar ideas to yourself, in such a way that between all those conversations something actually gets done, built. I focus on the former, I maintain contact with a colleague doing the latter. I build my entire world virtually, so that, effectively, I have an entire army of people working for me. Once it’s done, the computer should be able to tell me how much it’ll cost, or at least a reasonable first estimate, and we can go ask for cash.

44. 

    People can mess with The Venus Project, but nobody can mess with what Jaque Fresco have said. That is nailed down. And that’s the idea and the whitepaper. So anyone can launch a new project with Jacque Fresco’s ideas with an other name on. So people shouldn’t stick with a project if they are not allowed to make changes. Then they should make their own project. But Jaque’s idea is simple and it doesn’t necessarily require an organization: it’s living off of the land – resource based economy. That requires that people:
    1. occupy land (understand: granted, free and tax free, non-inheritable land) – this is the revolution part
    2. simply start living off of the land
    The original purpose of capitalism was making investment possible, because you can’t build a rocket in your backyard. You need investment to build a rocket. But in fact capitalism is not strictly necessary for investment. For example 20 families whoes lands are in the same neighbourhood can choose to unite, and build a rocket on their new common estate.
    In any case, capitalism should sit on the top of resource based economy, if it is allowed to exist, but it shouldn’t be allowed to replace resource based economy.
    This is possible by making both resource based economy and capitalism territorial and local.
    Homogenous land with similar qualities should be distributed (first, occupied) by the poeple as granted land, and only the leftover land (heterogenous land) should be allowed for capitalist purposes, and for the purpose of competition.
    This regional / territorial approach is very simple and easy.
    Because that is what decentralization means: it means going local.
    And when all people own land be default, then doesn’t necessarily mean that people are bound to that place only.
    Since granted land is not your property and cannot be inherited, a huge land swapping platform can be made on the internet, so that people can swap their location between each-other for whatever purpose, holidays, working or living, tourism, etc… all this would’t cost them anything, since it’s a contractual swap, not selling or buying.

45. 

    Not surprising that the people who get Fresco the most are people who lived in communism for a while, because even they lived in some kind of oppression, they got to experience real equality, sisterhood and brotherhood.
    People who never lived in communism think that the rat race is the only solution.

46. 

    Howdy, I quickly scrolled through your writing and did the same with the reader’s comments. Thanks for posting your thoughts. The same goes to those who posted comments. As for my comment: Resource Based Accounting seems to be more to the point. Economics is a medium of communications. BTW: I am a fan of Jacque Fresco. His work is appreciated. You were lucky to have met him. Stay tuned and take care.

    Neil Diamond – America
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulYeE_nQL34

47. 

    Capitalism is the paradigm, a profit-based economy. Of course, the TVP won’t solve these problems by itself, however it is a centre for research on better ideas and solutions that everybody should learn about, and then have better ideas. However, Roxanne spent most of her life helping Fresco achieve this, and naturally she may find it hard to allow the reigns to be handed to someone else, but this is not a fault with the TVP, this is common in any group that has founded something. Human beings create hierarchies, no, hierarchies form when human groups come together, and problems occur, which is why we have to see the wider picture, that to bring about this idea will require the greatest sacrifices humanity has ever done, giving up capitalist values.

    Capitalism dictates much of our lives, without money we can’t obtain resources to meet our basic needs, therefore Fresco’s idea, and the TVP will forever be changing and growing, people aren’t perfect, progress is at the rate in which people take up this idea of a resource-based economy. Some of the reasons you provide is more a frustration with the hierarchy there, and the rate of progress, both of which are incremental relative to how fast people can come to better values, and transition to a more sustainable world. This isn’t just the TVP’s responsibility, it is indeed a human responsibility.

    Capitalism as a system is based on an idea, because this idea is global, and it in a very unequal way, meets some people’s needs, and therefore because it “meets our needs”, we fear that if we try this new, and in fact better system, will we meet our needs? Naturally, this system has to be adopted by world leaders for the betterment of all, perhaps the TVP or different organisation, under a different name wants to bring about the same sustainable world. Today is life as we know it, however life as we know it isn’t sustainable, that should be self-evident, and not debateable.

    We cannot live this way permanently, and therefore being part of a sustainable approach to humanitarian concerns and uses of technology will only be successful if we, the people adopt this and collectively work towards it. Whoever wrote this believes whole heartedly in a better world, however bringing about a better world means deep change of values, and that threatens the present capitalist conditioning that we identify with. Sacrifices must be made, mental, physical, and our values. To say it won’t work because it’s just an idea is in my view nonsensical. All ideas are mocked, laughed at, and doubted, especially when our identity is wrapped up in a system that isn’t working but we desperately want it to, like capitalism.

    Whether it is the TVP or some other group, a sustainable economy, that shares resources, and provides and cares for the needs of the human race is the only future in which we all survive. 1/3 of Pakistan have been displaced due to climate change. The tipping points are being hit, and it’s costing us all too much, too fast. The countries that contribute more, are by their very lifestyle causing indirect genocide just by living in a capitalist system, and unfortunately, they have no choice but to, a harsh reality, because we live in a insane world. The trail, the chain of causality has been slow, and invisible for many decades, despite scientists trying to bring it to government awareness, and now, we are reaching a climax, we have to choose the planet or profit.

    As it stands, the world’s problems won’t be solved under capitalism. At least the TVP have the correct attitude and are trying to give their very lives for humanities future, and in that respect, I thank all who have attempted to assist sustainable ideas. However, unless, we as a species choose sustainability and knowledge for humanitarian purposes, over capitalism, we are doomed to go extinct as we fight over who has how much or what resources.

48. 

    Hello! Thank you so much for writing this. I was about to volunteer for TVP but I’ve always been a bit reluctant for the same reason of it lacking a clear blueprint. Thanks to you, I’ve just found out the TROM website and I feel like I could spend the rest of my life on it, as it perfectly describes what I’ve always had in my mind. It’s insane, currently I’m also writing my own book about most of the topics covered there. I am so excited to find out more and perhaps I’ll join this team eventually. I speak French, English and Russian. I guess you are from Russia, aren’t you?
    I can’t wait to learn more about TROM and complete my book, then get in touch with you for real. You’re such a wonderful and interesting person, keep up the good work!
    I wish you the best!! :)

49. 

    Power, Greed, Dept, Servitude and a Sociopathic Social System is only part of the World’s many problems. An RBE is really the only way to address this. The Transition to RBE needs to be done in parrallel with the present system. Until either the global monetary system fails completely or enough people come to their senses and make it happen, through social and political pressure. Unfortunately, this means that The Venus Project will still have to operate within the restraints of the present monetary system, if it intends to progress towards a better future. Fortunately, the Conservative’s of this world, are coming to the end of their natural evolutionary life cycle! The World is already transitioning without even realising it. It’s just a bit messy at this point in time. People are starting to realise that the present global economic system that they are being forced to participate in, is actually Global Corporatism!

50. 

    I have enjoyed reading this blog and many of the great comments posted! I believe a resource based economy is possible but requires a much MUCH LARGER number of people. Interested, educated and unified people from all walks of life. None of use should rely on TVP and Roxanne to get us there. We should be asking ourselves what can we do to increase our numbers? Most people have never heard of a “resource based economy” Most people accept the monetary system, capitalism and government without question, not really knowing how it all works. Or they are misinformed on how these systems work. Most people lack critical thinking skills and dont understand the scientific method. We need to change all this. We need to find ways to better educate and influence the people around us. We need to better educate our children. Once a substantial number of like minded people exists we then can unify and simply stop participating and supporting different aspects of the current social system until centerilized power is eliminated and things are more transparent to allow for true positive change by the people. For the people. The issue then becomes the transitional period. How do we get from here to there? What will the transition be like from a monetary, capitalistic society to a resource based one? How long will the transition last?
    I have several thoughts on how this transition might unfold. I truly believe this could work but a large percentage of the population must want it.

51. 

    Without getting very wordy about the subject, I clearly get the concept and the socio-economic problem of todays reality.
    It is our nature to destroy ourselves, as history plainly has shown us. So store the ideas and the research and wait and see if
    someone might be able to apply them after the destruction of the world as we know it. We have already seen it in all of our
    popular movies, and that is what people tend to want to believe in. We will do it, or ET will step in and either stop it or facilitate
    it, but you can be sure, the world as we know it is out of control and will not stop until it hits an immovable object.

    Who could blame them, if the whole world came down hard on the USA for what it did to the whole world. We learned it from the
    Brits, and who knows who they learned it from, probably Rome. Nevertheless, we have it coming.

    The utopia of the Venus project is a lot like the Urantia Book. Well worth the read but no more feasible. We all want truth,
    beauty and goodness, but it’s really only conceptual. Maybe some individuals can find it, but as a whole, the human race
    will have to get its teeth kicked in to even consider another option. Sorry, that’s my opinion.

52. 

    Thank you for sharing your story. A quick thought if I may: Similar to each year when I’d imagine going into my boss’s office and asking for a well-earned raise, in the end just doesn’t happen like you’d think it would. It’s almost like, imagine and plan everything DOABLE. If you have not considered those who’d sabotage your work, miscommunication, specific parameters of each person’s religion/politics/morality/beliefs coming into play, everything doable suddenly becomes phenomenally challenging. A plan isn’t 100% going to work unless it has been studied and proven to work.

    • Depending on the person, they might build positive change via spirituality, working tirelessly with love and pouring their heart into completing this mission.
    • And depending on the person, they might go as far as their greed, will or bad intentions take them, laboring fervently with negativity to destroy that mission.

    I can tell you’re the first kind. and I hope you continue to be. Ignore those in the latter group, many of us once were in the latter group and were able to snap out of it. Be safe, kind regards

    SA Booker

53. 

    I read the post by Sasha, and I did not think much of it. However, the more I read the more I began to see, that Sasha did quite a bit of research. I appreciate this blog post and I am glad I read it. I have been going back and froth to The Venus Project for some time to see its progress. I had some suspicions and I deliberately looked up for some controversy to see what sort of adverse effects this is causing for people who believe in sort of “Utopian ideology ” that said…

    Until humanity tips towards Kardashev scale of type 1 civilization we simply cannot make “resources based economy”. What The Venus Project and other similar projects are really advocating is efficient from of energy. Here is a wiki summery of type 1.

    “A civilization “close to the level presently attained on Earth, with energy consumption at ≈4×1019 erg/sec” (4×1012 watts).[8] A Type I civilization is usually defined as one that can harness all the energy that reaches its home planet from its parent star (for Earth, this value is around 2×1017 watts), which is about four orders of magnitude higher than the amount presently attained on Earth, with energy consumption at ≈2×1013 watts as of 2020. The astronomer Guillermo A. Lemarchand defined Type I as a level near contemporary terrestrial civilization with an energy capability equivalent to the solar insolation on Earth, between 1016 and 1017 watts.”

    At that point, we can then began to be “luxurious with our recourse and distribute them” Solving the energy crises is the number one step to a better output of resources. At that point we will look for a way to automatically delegate them so that we don’t have to manage it. This is where the lofty goal of AI comes in, or in The Venus Project the recourse distribution center. I can comment more on that, but humanity has been trying to better themselves for others for some time now.

    To give you an idea, there is a lot of research going for AI based system that will manage jobs and faster computing as well as analytical models for better economic output. What I am trying to say if I am saying anything at all is that when computers came out we had already figured out for sometime how to make a computer faster, how to make it work for us and how to make things faster for us so we can do other things. However, we simply lacked technology. As soon as we figured out how to practically implement our ideas the computing world took off. Think about it, computers did not take off until about 1980s or so. Sure we had 1950s computing power but it really was nothing special. The 1980s is not that far away, and look how far we have come. We now have AI systems that are becoming more and more sophisticated at such an alarming way that humanity is becoming scared of their own advancements.

54. 

    Finally a group of people who are blogging about this topic of a RBE. One of the thing’s I mised in the first instance on TVP website.

    When I hear Sasha speaking and look at the foto of her and Jacques, I think to myself “soulmates’ :).
    Personally I keep Jacques Fresco in my heart as one of the people who gave almost 100% form to my own way of thinking. I did not even know about Jacques back in 91 when I was a Activist boy who would try to convince his class mates that the school system we know it is BS and we should endevour in higher aspirations ourselves and Build robot’s to do the boring repetitios work. A few years later I caused an uproar in school becouse parents thought I would compromse the system with my ideas (even got the teacher so far as doing the PR for my plans, LOL).

    I have been a controversial outsider all of my life and many people don’t understand nor accept you when you are ‘a square peg in a round hole’..

    Sasha, your energy is admirable , you put a lot of efford in this site and the efford you have done for the Venus project is equally praisable.

    when I was young I eventually gave up demoralized on my ideas and became deeply depressed and dissapointed in society all together.
    It was only until 2010 that I really got to know Jacques Fresco and the Venus project via you tube. And since then it has never left my mind entirely.
    Jaques was an admirable man and I’m personally deeply sad about his passing. I never had the oportunity to meet him in reality.

    I’m a subscriber to the venus project nut am also dissapointed about the way thing’s are going (not going).
    The hole aproach leaves out concrete steps to convince investors to help starting to build these cities. If Elon Musk would start building a city like this; that would be the ticket to go I guess. But is he interrested in building alternative cities? Not as far as it go’s to this earth I think..
    But why not? Is elon planning to build banks on Mars? seems verry od and rediculous to me if I think about it.. personally I don’t think it would be a succes to introduce monetary systems to a planet that still needs terra forming in the first place lmao.

    The problem the venus project has to my opinion would be that they can’t raise enough money to build he initial city in the first place (which they probably wanna build to convince the rest of the world or something?).

    So how to create abundace? I have no definite answer as well. let me start by saying we have the technological ability (like jacues also said). And we may have some technology right now that could already be used to create abundace without a charge, if we would agree on building automated farms run by robot’s for example. Many of the infra structural robot’s (we could run by the use of WIFI and computerized automated systems are already here. also a ton of food production (processed foods) already run practically fully automated. A global survey system (jacques was talking about), you just have to look at the Chinees model that keeps track of it’s citisen? could you not use the same technology for surveying resources and keeping track of what is needed at what place? I think so (with a few modifications). And persoally I prefer the idea of tracking processes and resources above tracking people :/ Gues we could probably agree on that to ;)

    So what is keeping us? I think the general public is stil getting used to a lot of new technologies and they have difficulties understanding and thinking of alternative way’s in the first place. Many of them stil don’t even know of how much robot’s can already do exactly. The second big issue is to my opinion that a lot, nut not all technology is already here to make every factory on the planet run without any human intervention. But that wil soon change likely.
    So time is a issue stil. Then we have the problem of trasition. If nobody has a job, how are the billion’s suffice in theirday to day needs (wiyhou a job no money in today’s system, right?). As far as I know the WEF is busty with such isseus ‘Universal Basic Income’ a low income everybody can pay their bills from and maybe have a few hundreds left to live off of. So let’s say we will al get a universal basic income in a few years? would that solve all problems? No ofcoure not. But it would make life a lot less stressfull; not having to worry about paying bills and surviving the end of the week, moth, day..

    PS: ‘The Zeitgeist movement’ has adopted a lot of Jaques ideas as well and to my opinion they can make it more understandable and point some basic problems out better then the Venus Project did -for somebody who paye dless attention.

    Another big problem the whole wolrd agrees on I think is climate change and environmental polution. The isseu to my opinion and also to Zeitgeist is that ruling Elites try to solve these problems with money, which is ofcourse not possible since these isseus are created by money in the first place :/..
    Jacques as well as zeitgeist noth point ou the fact of planned obsolescence ( producing cheep crap that breaks down soon and has to be replaces (best example are 1$ Umbrella’a that break after the first strong wind and land in the garbage). To make profit (and profit keeps the goverments budget growing as well) every entrepenour has to builds product’s that are unsustainable in the first place. Ofcourse you could buold the highest possible quality product’s but then you would lose money on resources becouse you would not be able to sell them to the majority of people. so it is a double edged sword. Besides that; if others make cheaper products then you? they would sell, and the durable company would not sell (exept for luxury items that only crazy people buy becouse they don’t represent the true vallue of the item’s sold. The next thing would be indeed ‘Arteficial scarcirty’. Companies that produce more food then needed, more clothes then can be bought, more luxury good’s that can’t be sold and decide to burry, incinerate, and just distroy the items (mass polution) exept fo rthe food that is an expensive way to eventuallty make it into bio gas becouse peopl edon’t had the money to buy it..

    Jaques Fresco taked about an evolving society (he had no notion of what a utopian society would be). He also stated a quote from Einstein; ‘you can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking you used when creating them’ – A. Einstein-. Which is the way of thinking currently used in Davos as far as I know…

    there are so many problems created by the use of money that we are drastically confronted all over the world that this can’t continue this way. But don’t forget that money is around for 2100 years (~100 BC) as far as I remember ther was no money in the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve could pick any frout wiyhout having to pay bills to god (wheter or not you wanna believe in god or not is not the point right now, that is a personal choice for all to make ;)

    Jaques stated; ‘we could build a second Garden of eden if we wanted to, the choice is your’s, knock yourselves out’. He also said it would take a fraction of the money spend on war materials used during the second world war (acording to jaques personal calculations . who was -let’s not forget- already around at the timeand has witnessed it all passing..

    Today NATO as the aspiration to spend about 4% of every member countries anual GDP on weapons to defend and attack other countries if they cant resolve their differences of differencial advantage of monetary issues in a more humane way. My biggest question today is; why are we not spending the same ammounth of money on building alternative systems? The argument that all of them are utopian thinking is not enough to satisfy my question. And just stamp something as impossible….

    i WISH YOU ALL A GOOD DAY PEOPLE. WONDERFULL TO SEE THAT THIS SITE EXIST’S AND PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO RAISE QUESTIONS.

    Love peace and respect to ya all :)

    greetings, Od Camel

    1. 

       “””The hole approach leaves out concrete steps to convince investors to help starting to build these cities. If Elon Musk would start building a city like this; that would be the ticket to go I guess. But is he interested in building alternative cities? Not as far as it go’s to this earth I think..”””

       Elon Musk is a billionaire who cares about making more billions.

       On top of this TVP, from my knowledge of working with them for 4 years (TVPMagazine), can’t even build a website, let alone build a new city. And even if they were to build a city it would not amount to anything. We released a documentary recently (TROM II) and Sasha is a big part of it. We talk about these. You can watch it here https://www.tromsite.com/documentaries/trom2/

       “”””The problem the venus project has to my opinion would be that they can’t raise enough money to build he initial city in the first place (which they probably wanna build to convince the rest of the world or something?).”””

       Remember, TVP wasted 200.000 dollars on a movie script. Even if I had billions I would not give them to TVP.

       I think Sasha raised all of these points in this article.

55. 

    ps; my excuse for the many spell errors (i have a neurological impairment since a couple of years).

56. 

    Hello Sasha, I was looking on the site again today and also visited TROM. A resource based economy is something that is in my mind -latendly- all the time. The problem is most people I encounter do not seem to realy be able to grasp the alternative ideas that could probably work , or they just say something like; ‘A moneyless world will never work, it has been this way forever and it will always be this way’.. (END of story). Shure you have heared this before yourself some times. But I believe most are just to lazy to think about it, and they are comfortable in this lazyness I think, seemingly unwilling to think outside of their comfort zone.

    The Ideas TROM provide trough there books are all verry relevant to people who have been living in a illusion for mosrt of their lives and are willing to wake up, that’s great. But there is something that I am missing there which Jacques had a personal but verry functional solution to. And that is that they also do nit come with a reasonable solution to the problems we have today. The many aspects of the current global crisis they interpet in a easy to understand language for most people and I think that is verry good. But what is the alternative? How are you going to start building/transitioning this world? How are we going to transit from Capitalism to Resource based and truely free, sustainable and free of poveety, hunger, War, debt (slavery), human traffic, Drug abuse and cartell’s, Monopolisation/Patterns, pooching endangered species etc, etc world?..

    Personally I think that there could already be a way to institute agraculture, making it government controlled and regulated; There are some oportunities right now I think to build completely automated food production facilities that run without the need of a lot of (if any) people. The few people that are needed could be payed during the transition by government taxes. We the people pay these taxes so there is a good reason/motivation for providing it for free as well. Ofcourse this would be bad new’s for some farmers or business ventureres in the priivate sector -closing some of their beloved ‘nieches’ which to make profit from. And that would be bad new’s for their money addiction, but what the hell, right :)

    So what if we would automate food production and fund it by taxfair money?
    how should it be distributed? and who would be first? would people take more then they need and let the rest spoil in their fridge, eventually trowing it away and produce a lot more food waste then today? And the money they now do not have to spend on food anymore? are they going to save it (bad for the economy today), or would they spend it on other thing’s that make the money oriented economy run and grow? Sorry I have to mention: I hate the word ‘Economic-growth’ and have a verry ambivalent relation to it, since it makes a economy stronger and on the other hand let’s the global eco-system run down the drain faster (in the contemporary world we live in).

    The next thing I would like to share my thought on is housing.
    We currently are develloping 3D-printers to print houses with -for commercial purpouses- verry simular to Jacques ideas of extruding houses. Why should these printers not be bought and put to action in a simular manner, by governing it via taxes (during a transituion period)? If we run these printers funded by tax money we do not have to pay some commercial company any profit margin;s for them, right? So printing houses could solve the (arteficial) housing crisis? I belive that housing should be free and not a object to speculate with to make money work for private investors leeching dry other’s ability to live a fullfilled and happy live.

    So how much as I like all these Venus Project alternatives talking, and rasing awareness aboud a resource based economy. None of them really seem to build ‘think tanks’ on how to transit to, and what alternatives there could be to the current Global Eco system, life/living distroying crisis of Money and exploitation trough trade and privatisation.

    To my opinion we could make a multifold more durable global society and let a 100% of the world’s population florisch at the same time with a fraction of the resources required today, as long as we organise the world in a sustainable way. And this is absolutely no Utopian thinking, becouse with new ideas there will come new problem’s as well. But they are worth it if you can solve a ton of other problem’s to gain a few new one’s, right?..

    Ps: Read this article again today and I cannot express more how much I felth (and feel) the same aboud homelessness in the world. And why people just accept this as a reality to leave their significant others lying in the streets like this, just becouse they are not able to keep their own heads above the water in this tornado of Crazyness we all seem to accept as a reality..

57. 

    YES, My spelling sucks. I know, sorry :/
    ;)

58. 

    TIO, I understand your frustration with the Venus Project, but Roxanne and her team are doing it their way.. Trial and error.
    Ofcourse. they do not seem to make a lot of progress and one may ask himself if this is not a completely wrong approach.. But just as TROM they do there best to raise awareness of a alternative and better world. Even if they will not initiate it.

    I think we should not critisize one another to much; nut try to work together and accept that we have a difficult path before us and are only in the beginning of this process by raisnig awareness.

    Only a few years ago mainstream had not really heared about a ‘Resource based economy’ before… Now it is a ‘coined term’ (started by Jacques Fresco as far as I know).

    I guess Jacques wil one day get the recognition he deserves for raising so much awareness already in this world.

    Roxanne is trying it her way, not to mention that the whole situation with Jacques passing and the time frame of it.. And let’s not forget that these people are of age, they are not youngsters anymore full of Energy.

    I think we should let go of our personal frustrations more and try to see things from one anothers perspective to gain new information to build upon and not rust in our previous thinking like the system itself is doing ;)

    Maybe one day Elon Musk wil get to read these article’s and get’s a change of hearth? He seem t be a reasonable guy to me and thinks a lot about thing’s most do not consearn themselves with..

    Bless you all Brothers. Have a good day

59. 

    I was also stuck on money being the issue for a long time. Now contemplating on trade instead I’m not sure it will get me much further. As an example we can build roads today that will be 99.9 % accident free. The reason we don’t do it is because it will cost to much money. So it is easy to see money as the problem here as it seems more valued than human life. So let’s say we remove money. We live in a place where this road is needed. We have the resources and the knowledge to build this road. Would we do it? Probably not. There would be a debate about it and agreed that something else have higher prio than doing this. Then one can see it that all of a sudden that effort/time is more valued than human life at this point and so on.

    So what is it really that makes us choose not to make the road as secure as possible if drilling down to the core? It is that we as a species are more intelligent than we are biological capable of living up to. Life is not our primary concern. That is why Socialism, Communism, Capitalism and -ism in general don’t succeed. We humans are not there yet. Because if we were we would not need any of the -isms at all since it would fall into place automatically.

    So we need some kind of framework that keeps us alive and progressing util we reaches that point in the future. This framework is also probably not super nice to accept either since it would be something along the line of keeping individual control of all individuals like what we see in todays China where everyone is monitored 24/7. This is horrific but at the same time it creates the most secure society that we are capable of sustaining at this point in time.

    Of course I would really madly appreciate if someone could point out that I’m totally on the wrong track here because it would of course be much nicer to have a brighter view of it all.

60. 

    The history of the Israeli Kibbutz system is a good thing to learn. They had an (almost) money-less, resource-based society for over 60 years until they let education on wasting resources (turn the light off if not using it !) lapse for the youngest generation & the forced interaction with Capitalist neighbours who were ripping them off.

61. 

    Hey Sasha,

    The chicken and the egg problem as always. My bet is on ownership since all others stem from it. And there is a lot to be done about it. In the first place no river and stone exists with a price tag on it. That’s billions of people putting pricing on stuff which is naturally free. Then you have police and army to protect that ” newly acquired property”. Things are much simpler to understand when you realize we were born without anything and die without anything. Thus the whole game is made up.

    Created a few neat little apps to solve the distribution, decision making and news problems which I see as staples to today’s system: https://github.com/stateless-minds

    You don’t need to join anything to use them and there is no ideology behind it. It’s how we are naturally before we are indoctrinated.

    Wrote a book as well with my understanding of things: https://www.reddit.com/r/AutonomyBook/

    Hope someone finds it useful.

    Cheers

    1. 

       Hi Foncho,
       I don’t really disagree with you on this, but I find that changing everyone’s minds about ownership is a nearly impossible task. From governments who “own” land and protect it with armies, to corporations, to billionaires- they all have so much power and care so much to protect that power and everything they own, that I cannot see how a group of people can convince them that this river, or this stone or field, or whatever else, does not really belong to them. Though I do agree that of course, this is all in our imagination.

62. 

    It wouldn’t need convincing at all I think. If you have been following the great reset agenda of “you will own nothing and be happy” this is already underway. The majority of people will be ownershipless in less than 5 years. And from there to questioning ownership as a concept is just one step away. Paradoxically we are aligned with the elite on that simply because of the end game we have reached. We don’t have a real trade system for the past 10 years or so, it’s a planned economy where about 100 corporations produce everything via subsidiaries. 99% of ownership is already in the hands of 1% of population. People just don’t realize it yet. They will realize that when the CBDC tokenization happens next year.

63. 

    Same about “nationality” – it’s not where you were born that matters but “who you really are as a person”. I was born (& now live) in one country but identify as a person of my ancestor’s country. I have much more in common with them & feel “at Home” there & in one other country when I go there on holidays. Western society has got many things wrong as they haven’t evolved but stayed in a mindset from many centuries ago.

64. 

    Hey Sasha. Thank you for your article

    I’ve been tracking TVP and some members for years and came to similar conclusions

    Have you had a good look at the Auravana Project?

    It describes in high detail the issues of society and describes in high detail a project plan to build the first cities

    A transition plan is also included. Including roles and work breakdown

    I am a relationship developer for that project. Pm me if you’re interested in an intro call.